--- Log opened Thu Jun 05 00:00:04 2025
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00:44 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] maflcko opened pull request #32680: ci: Rewrite test-each-commit as rust script (master...2506-ci-rust-script) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32680
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01:00 < bitcoin-git> [gui-qml] GBKS opened pull request #466: Visual tweaks to the fee selector in the send form (main...feature/fee-selection-visual-tweaks) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/pull/466
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01:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/f94167512dc9...fd4399cb9c69
01:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 56d878c Antoine Poinsot: fuzz: avoid underflow in coins_view target
01:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 46e1463 Antoine Poinsot: fuzz: move the coins_view target's body into a standalone function
01:28 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master cfc42ae Antoine Poinsot: fuzz: add a target for the coins database
01:28 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #32602: fuzz: Add target for coins database (master...2025/05/coins-view-db-fuzztest) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32602
01:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/fd4399cb9c69...6a2ff6790929
01:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 4ce5349 ismaelsadeeq: doc: update tor docs to use bitcoind binary from path
01:38 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6a2ff67 merge-script: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#32679: doc: update tor docs to use bitcoind binary f...
01:38 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #32679: doc: update tor docs to use bitcoind binary from path (master...06-2025-fix-tor-docs) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32679
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01:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/6a2ff6790929...ae024137bda9
01:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 9653ebc fanquake: depends: remove support for Windows Qt LTO builds
01:54 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master ae02413 merge-script: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#32496: depends: drop `ltcg` for Windows Qt
01:54 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #32496: depends: drop `ltcg` for Windows Qt (master...depends_qt_ltcg) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32496
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03:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] Sjors opened pull request #32682: wallet: have external signer use PSBT error code EXTERNAL_SIGNER_NOT_FOUND (master...2025/06/external-signer-error) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32682
03:19 < bitcoin-git> [gui-qml] hebasto pushed 2 commits to main: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/compare/989bbe0d106a...7af57088372e
03:19 < bitcoin-git> gui-qml/main b987ae5 johnny9: qml: Add Skeleton loading to Activity
03:19 < bitcoin-git> gui-qml/main 7af5708 merge-script: Merge bitcoin-core/gui-qml#460: Add Skeleton loading to Activity
03:19 < bitcoin-git> [gui-qml] hebasto merged pull request #460: Add Skeleton loading to Activity (main...activity-skeleton) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/pull/460
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06:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 12 commits to 28.x: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/59c19a541695...7f1da7626923
06:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/28.x 00b401c Ava Chow: guix: Rename unsigned.tar.gz to codesigning.tar.gz
06:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/28.x 9f0ee1c Ava Chow: guix: Rename MacOS binaries to unsigned.tar.gz
06:36 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/28.x 2c21db6 Ava Chow: guix: Rename Windows unsigned binaries to unsigned.zip
06:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #32563: [28.x] Backport #31407 (28.x...backport_codesigning) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32563
06:40 < hebasto> sipa: would you be willing to consider enabling GitHub Actions for https://github.com/bitcoin-core/minisketch?
06:41 < dergoegge> glozow: re https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/31829 why change the orphanage to a multi index and change behavior in the same commit? :sob:
06:41 < dergoegge> it makes the PR harder to review imo
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06:48 < sipa> hebasto: does it work now?
06:48 < dergoegge> I think ideally it'd be 2 PRs: 1. switch to multi index while leaving the interfaces untouched 2. change behavior
06:50 < glozow> dergoegge: yeah sad, but if I reimplement the old eviction strategy as a multi index, it needs like twice as many indexes
06:51 < glozow> you could first review the old version where the new eviction strategy is implemented using the existing data structures if that's more familiar
06:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake opened pull request #32684: [28.x] 28.2rc2 (28.x...28_2_rc2) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32684
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06:53 < glozow> I wrote a comment about this
06:54 < glozow> dergoegge: here is the old PR https://github.com/glozow/bitcoin/commits/2025-05-copy-31829/
06:55 < sipa> FWIW, we discussed this and my thinking was that separating the impl/behavior change isn't really worth it for review, if the result is a substantial amount of code that would be added just to be deleted immediately after
06:55 < hebasto> sipa: the "Actions" tab is now available, but it seems not working until a workflow description become part of the default branch :(
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06:56 < sipa> hebasto: i'm perhaps not the right person to help you
06:57 < hebasto> sipa: thanks for enabling them; I mean it will work when/if https://github.com/bitcoin-core/minisketch/pull/75 is merged
06:57 < sipa> ah ok
06:57 < dergoegge> marcofleon was gonna deferentially fuzz the old and new (multi index) version but like this its not possible
06:58 < glozow> porting the existing eviction strategy would need interfaces <ByWtxid> <ByPeer> <ByExpiry> and a random-access for eviction. Then we'd introduce a sequence number, then delete half of the indexes... it just didn't seem worth it.
06:58 < glozow> why not?
06:58 < dergoegge> because the behavior changed
06:59 < glozow> the behavior is supposed to change though?
06:59 < marcofleon> I was gonna differential fuzz the refactor only
06:59 < glozow> wait do you mean the old PR or orphanage on master?
07:00 < sipa> dergoegge: i think what you'd really want for differential fuzzing is first implement the new behavior without multi-index, then add a multi-index version, then fuzz the difference between the two, and then delete/switch over
07:00 < dergoegge> current orphange against multi index refactor
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07:00 < sipa> because otherwise all you're doing is fuzzing an implementation using two data structures of behavior that's going away anyway
07:00 < glozow> why not fuzz the old version of the PR against the multi index version?
07:01 < dergoegge> i mean that seems different but probably useful too
07:01 < marcofleon> old pr vs new pr could work, that makes sense
07:03 < sipa> i'm not sure that's all that useful, unless it is somehow the case that the old PR is more obviously correctly implements the desired behavior than the new PR
07:03 < marcofleon> basically differential fuzz the new behavior, one without multi-index and one with
07:03 < glozow> If we really want this, I can write it. But it's a bunch more code to review that then goes away immediately. I don't think it's meaningful to differentially fuzz against behavior that we know is subpar and want to change
07:04 < glozow> Like, we are doing this because we know the eviction sucks and want to change it
07:04 < sipa> the point of such a fuzz test is to increase reviewer confidence by establishing that something more-obviously-correct and something less-obviously-correct are equivalent
07:05 < sipa> but i don't think that's the case here, the multi-index makes it a lot easier to reason about
07:06 < glozow> If we want to do 2 stages, we could do the old version of the PR and then the refactor after...?
07:06 < instagibbs> hmm, I'm not sure I found the non-multi index version of the PR significantly easier to read?
07:06 < instagibbs> Unless it is just trivially badly done performance wise then swapped out
07:06 < sipa> instagibbs: that's my point - i think the multi-index one is easier to read, so differential fuzzing with something else isn't really a gain
07:07 < dergoegge> glozow: right that makes sense, I wasn't aware it'd be much more code
07:07 < dergoegge> I was under the impression that the multi index suggestion came up in the context of reviewing the behavior change (i.e. it'd be easier if it was a multi index)
07:07 < dergoegge> Therefore to me it seemed useful to first make sure the switch to multi-index was correct
07:07 < instagibbs> sipa ah ok +1
07:08 < dergoegge> old vs new pr is good, it should be the same thing
07:08 < sipa> but did anyone fully review the old one?
07:08 < sipa> if there is no reason to have confidence that the old one was implementing the desired behavior, i don't think i see the point
07:09 < instagibbs> they're gonna be subtly different too, FIFO eviction vs random from Dosiest peer
07:09 < instagibbs> for one
07:09 < sipa> if anything, you'd want a separate test-only even-more-trivial implementation of the exactly desired behavior, and then have a fuzz test that compares the real implementation with that
07:09 < dergoegge> sipa: right if the fuzzing doesn't turn anything up there is no gain but I think if there is a difference then that at least lets us decide which one is correct/desireable
07:09 < instagibbs> sipa yeah that was my one possible suggestion, it recalculates everythign in some really dumb wy
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07:10 < sipa> (this is what txrequest did/does, it also switched implementation and behavior at the same time, but also added a trivial reimplementation and comparison with it)
07:10 < sipa> but i think the complexity in the implementation in txorphanage is a lot less, so i'm not sure it's worth the effort
07:13 < sipa> still, i think that's more valuable than a comparison with a more complex, more error-prone, never deployed, only partially reviewed, older implementation of the same thing
07:13 < instagibbs> fwiw the introduced fuzz targets didn't have to change much, at least the "one honest package" one didn't
07:17 < marcofleon> txorphan_protected you mean?
07:17 < instagibbs> sounds right
07:27 < dergoegge> instagibbs: ok if we know there are subtle differences already, then there truly is no point
07:29 < instagibbs> whispering more fuzz harness suggestions to marcofleon
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08:50 < bitcoin-git> [qa-assets] marcofleon opened pull request #226: add coins_view_db inputs (main...coins-view-db-inputs) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/qa-assets/pull/226
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09:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Meeting started at 2025-06-05T16:00+0000
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Current chairs: achow101
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
09:00 < corebot> achow101: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
09:01 < jonatack> hi
09:01 < hodlinator> hi
09:01 < TheCharlatan> hi
09:01 < eugenesiegel> hi
09:01 < fjahr> hi
09:01 < lightlike> Hi
09:01 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: abubakarsadiq achow101 _aj_ ajonas b10c brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto hodlinator instagibbs jarolrod jonatack josibake kanzure laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa sr_gi tdb3 theStack TheCharlatan vasild willcl-ark
09:01 < hebasto> hi
09:01 < cfields> hi
09:01 < stickies-v> hi
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09:01 < achow101> There are no preproposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?
09:01 < instagibbs> hi
09:01 < dzxzg> hi
09:01 < Murch[m]> Hi
09:02 < marcofleon> hi
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09:02 < rkrux> hi
09:02 < brunoerg_> hi
09:02 < achow101> #topic Kernel WG Update (TheCharlatan)
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09:02 < TheCharlatan> looking for review on #32317
09:02 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32317 | kernel: Separate UTXO set access from validation functions by TheCharlatan · Pull Request #32317 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:03 < sipa> hi
09:03 < TheCharlatan> other than that, been working on the block tree storage some more. that's all :)
09:03 < achow101> #topic Cluster Mempool WG Update (sdaftuar, sipa)
09:03 < johnny9dev> hi
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09:04 < glozow> hi
09:04 < sipa> not much progress since last week
09:05 < sipa> we had a very well attended review club about a related PR, #30605
09:05 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/30605 | Cluster linearization: separate tests from tests-of-tests by sipa · Pull Request #30605 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:05 < sipa> so well attended that it's going to be repeated
09:05 < marcofleon> i'm hoping it's not as crowded as last one was
09:05 < instagibbs> #31553 (still the thing to review)
09:05 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31553 | cluster mempool: add TxGraph reorg functionality by sipa · Pull Request #31553 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:05 < sipa> indeed!
09:06 < sipa> also, some more work on comparing benchmarks for the new algorithm on multiple platforms
09:06 < sipa> if you'd like to help, see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32545#issuecomment-2928370752
09:06 < sipa> also pretty graphs
09:06 < sipa> that's it for me, i think
09:07 < achow101> #topic MuSig2 WG Update (achow101, rkrux)
09:07 < achow101> #31244 continues to get review, and is still the PR to review.
09:07 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31244 | descriptors: MuSig2 by achow101 · Pull Request #31244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:07 < achow101> A reviewer pointed out that the PR did not implement the restriction specified in BIP 390 that musig() descriptors cannot contain duplicate participants. When I started implementing it, I realized that this restriction is a bit more complicated than I had thought it would be, so I have proposed to the mailing list to drop that.
09:07 < achow101> I forsee some more BIP work will need to be done soon(tm)
09:08 < achow101> #topic orphan resolution WG Update (glozow)
09:08 < glozow> #31829 is up for review, thanks people who have taken a look
09:08 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31829 | p2p: improve TxOrphanage denial of service bounds by glozow · Pull Request #31829 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:09 < glozow> I'm open to splitting it, but don't see a good way to do so. lmk if people have ideas
09:11 < glozow> Maybe we could do the prep commits in a separate PR? idk
09:11 < glozow> that's it from me
09:11 < achow101> #topic QML GUI WG Update (jarolrod, johnny9dev)
09:11 < johnny9dev> A lot of QML work getting completed and PRs opened.
09:11 < johnny9dev> Addtional init loading animations were merged in bitcoin-core/gui-qml#460
09:11 < johnny9dev> Standard fee selection control was added to Send to set very basic (low/default/high) block-based fees. This has been merged bitcoin-core/gui-qml#461
09:11 < johnny9dev> Some cleanup to our layouts are being done by goqusan bitcoin-core/gui-qml#463. He's been working through what we have and fixing up messy anchors and layouts and his reviews have helped give clarity on getting the layouts where they need to be
09:11 < johnny9dev> Multiple Recipients in the Send form has been PR'd and close to being merged bitcoin-core/gui-qml#450
09:11 < johnny9dev> First set of form input validation for Send has been PR'd. This will also be used for payment requests. bitcoin-core/gui-qml#462
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/460 | Add Skeleton loading to Activity by johnny9 · Pull Request #460 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < johnny9dev> RequestPayment page has finally been hooked up to our wallet model to generate and commit actual payment requests and addresses. bitcoin-core/gui-qml#464
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/461 | Introduce standard fee selection to Send by johnny9 · Pull Request #461 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < johnny9dev> The case where no wallet is actually loaded has been PRd at bitcoin-core/gui-qml#465
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/463 | Fix layouts 1/n by goqusan · Pull Request #463 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/450 | Add Multiple Recipients option to the Send form by johnny9 · Pull Request #450 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/462 | Add validation to the Send form (address and amount) by johnny9 · Pull Request #462 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/464 | Connect Receive page to WalletQmlModel and Cleanup Layouts by johnny9 · Pull Request #464 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/465 | Show "Select Wallet" or "Add Wallet" in the Wallet selector if a wallet isn't loaded by johnny9 · Pull Request #465 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:12 < johnny9dev> Momentum is really starting to pick up which is really encouraging
09:12 < sipa> cool
09:12 < fanquake> Have we rebased onto CMake / Qt 6 now?
09:12 < johnny9dev> One issue I'm having and need some help with is related to managing issues on the repo itself. I'm unable to change state on them myself and its slowing us down a bit
09:13 < johnny9dev> I plan on starting build/depends work in a couple of weeks. It will likely start in july
09:13 < achow101> johnny9dev: we can give you triage permissions for that
09:14 < johnny9dev> by build/depends I mean that I will be looking at the best way to update to the latest systems and check on how to properly separate concerns with this project
09:14 < jarolrod> pinheadmz: should have an update on the sync
09:14 < sipa> he's OOO today
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09:14 < jarolrod> 🌴🌴🌴
09:15 < johnny9dev> triage permissions would help a lot. thank you
09:15 < johnny9dev> thats all i have for this week
09:16 < achow101> #topic Script Validation WG Update (fjahr)
09:19 < achow101> perhaps fjahr is not here
09:19 < achow101> Any other topics to discuss this week?
09:19 < fjahr> sorry, i had connection issues
09:19 < fjahr> Since I last reported here in batch validation (#29491) I have addressed some comments and the latest benchmarks look very promising. Also added some unit tests. I hope I can finally fix the taproot test soon and take it out of draft status afterwards. 
09:19 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29491 | [EXPERIMENTAL] Schnorr batch verification for blocks by fjahr · Pull Request #29491 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:19 < fjahr> Though maybe not, it’s still blocked by the secp PR. Also hoping for that to get an update soon.
09:20 < fjahr> That’s it.
09:20 < achow101> Any other topics?
09:22 < achow101> #endmeeting
09:22 < corebot> achow101: Meeting ended at 2025-06-05T16:22+0000
09:22 < corebot> achow101: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-06-05_16_00.log.json
09:22 < corebot> achow101: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-06-05_16_00.log.html
09:22 < corebot> achow101: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-06-05_16_00.html
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10:00 < bitcoin-git> [qa-assets] maflcko merged pull request #226: add coins_view_db inputs (main...coins-view-db-inputs) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/qa-assets/pull/226
10:00 < bitcoin-git> [qa-assets] maflcko pushed 2 commits to main: https://github.com/bitcoin-core/qa-assets/compare/4e64c5b478cd...ef94b3a22671
10:00 < bitcoin-git> qa-assets/main dfc1993 marcofleon: add coins_view_db inputs
10:00 < bitcoin-git> qa-assets/main ef94b3a maflcko: Merge pull request #226 from marcofleon/coins-view-db-inputs
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10:29 < gmaxwell> fjahr: if you're seeing slowdowns in batch validation with more threads that persist after resolving locking issues there are some internal parameters in libsecp256k1 that influence the cache footprint that might not be optimal because they were tuned by single thread testing.
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10:31 < gmaxwell> I see in the PR some comments about merging batches-- probably could be done in the API (due to lack of use it hasn't had a lot of development) but I think you don't want to anyways.. the asymptotic batching gain is only like 2x or whatnot,  so it'll usually be better for performance to have more concurrency than more batching.
10:32 < gmaxwell> instead you'll probably want to get IBD validation able to batch validate multiple blocks at once eventually... and then even with a zillion cores all the batches will be reasonably large.
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13:36 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] PeterWrighten opened pull request #32685: wallet: Allow read-only database access for info and dump commands (master...wallet-readonly-access) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32685
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15:22 < fjahr> gmaxwell: Cool, thanks for the feedback. Currently, the secp PR is still missing usage of Pippenger which is why I am mostly looking at relative improvements in benchmarks by changes in the core PR. After pippenger is added the caching would be good to check to look at next. I suggested the merging because I seemed like a good idea in my head but got the feedback that merging scratch spaces would be needed for that and it 
15:22 < fjahr> sounded like something that would take a lot of effort with unclear gains, so might be reconsidered later if it's even worth it at all like you are saying.
15:26 < gmaxwell> yeah my point is that like, if you have 16 cpus you should have 16 batches, because doing say, 8 somewhat larger batches will always be slower than using all the cores.  (or even 15 slightly larger batches vs 16 smaller using all the cores).  I think the only reason you'd ever want to merge batches is if for some reason you had more validation threads than cores. 
15:26 < gmaxwell> as far as merging them, I think it wouldn't actually be complicated, you'd just copy all of one into the other, keeping the destination scratch space size the same.
15:26 < gmaxwell> but I don't think it would actually be useful.
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17:22 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] theStack opened pull request #32690: depends: fix multiprocess build on OpenBSD (apply capnp patch, correct SHA256SUM command) (master...202506-depends-fix_openbsd_multiprocess_build) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32690
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