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07:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake pushed 4 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/8283af13fe86...aef2dbb40276
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 6653caf fanquake: ci: allow libc++ instrumentation other than msan
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master b09af2c fanquake: ci: instrument libc++ in TSAN job
07:08 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 7aa5b67 fanquake: ci: remove DEBUG_LOCKORDER from TSAN job
07:08 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake merged pull request #33099: ci: allow for any libc++ intrumentation & use it for TSAN (master...ci_generic_libcpp_instr) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33099
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07:45 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoincore.org] fanquake opened pull request #1160: releases: add posted-on date to release post (master...posted_on_date) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/bitcoincore.org/pull/1160
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07:57 < willcl-ark> #proposedmeetingtopic CI migration to Cirrus Runners
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09:00 < achow101> #startmeeting
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Meeting started at 2025-07-31T16:00+0000
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Current chairs: achow101
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Useful commands: #action #info #idea #link #topic #motion #vote #close #endmeeting
09:00 < corebot> achow101: See also: https://hcoop-meetbot.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
09:00 < corebot> achow101: Participants should now identify themselves with '#here' or with an alias like '#here FirstLast'
09:00 < rkrux> hi
09:00 < TheCharlatan> hi
09:00 < janb84> hi
09:00 < achow101> #bitcoin-core-dev Meeting: abubakarsadiq achow101 _aj_ ajonas b10c brunoerg cfields darosior dergoegge fanquake fjahr furszy gleb glozow hebasto hodlinator instagibbs jarolrod jonatack josibake kanzure laanwj LarryRuane lightlike luke-jr maflcko marcofleon maxedw Murch pinheadmz provoostenator ryanofsky sdaftuar S3RK stickies-v sipa sr_gi tdb3 theStack TheCharlatan vasild willcl-ark
09:00 < pinheadmz> hi
09:00 < cfields> hi
09:00 < Sjors[m]1> hi
09:00 < lightlike> hi
09:00 < kevkevin> hi
09:00 < furszy> hi
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09:00 < achow101> There are 2 preproposed meeting topics this week. Any last minute ones to add?
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09:01 < emzy> hi
09:01 < eugenesiegel> hi
09:01 < l0rinc> hi
09:01 < johnny9dev> hi
09:01 < willcl-ark> hi
09:01 < Murch[m]> hello
09:01 < achow101> #topic Kernel WG Update (TheCharlatan)
09:02 < TheCharlatan> There's some movement happening again on the API PR, currently scoping out approaches for making usage safer with reference counting.
09:02 < darosior> hi
09:03 < stickies-v> hi
09:03 < TheCharlatan> it's also been attracting some new people to contribute, which is nice :)
09:04 < b10c> hi
09:04 < TheCharlatan> might having something more concrete to share again in a few weeks.
09:04 < TheCharlatan> that's all
09:04 < achow101> #topic Stratum v2 WG Update (sjors)
09:05 < glozow> hi
09:06 < achow101> from sjors: Same as last week, would still like to see #31679 and #31802 make it for the feature freeze.
09:06 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31679 | cmake: Move internal binaries from bin/ to libexec/ by ryanofsky · Pull Request #31679 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:06 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31802 | Add bitcoin-{node,gui} to release binaries for IPC by Sjors · Pull Request #31802 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:07 < achow101> #topic MuSig2 WG Update (achow101)
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09:07 < achow101> No changes since last week, #31244 is still probably rfm. I've pulled in several of the suggested followups into #29675
09:07 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31244 | descriptors: MuSig2 by achow101 · Pull Request #31244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:07 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/29675 | wallet: Be able to receive and spend inputs involving MuSig2 aggregate keys by achow101 · Pull Request #29675 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:07 < achow101> #topic orphan resolution WG Update (glozow)
09:08 < glozow> still looking to get #32941 in for v30
09:08 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32941 | p2p: TxOrphanage revamp cleanups by glozow · Pull Request #32941 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:08 < glozow> that's all
09:08 < achow101> #topic QML GUI WG Update (jarolrod, johnny9dev)
09:09 < kanzure> hi
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09:09 < johnny9dev> We're making good progress on patching remaining issues with moving the project to submodule, cmake, and qt6. Deer gee has ported over his AssumeUTXO PR over to the new structure already (bitcoin-core/gui-qml#485) . I should have my previous PRs ported over this weekend.
09:09 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/issues/485 | QML Load UTXO Snapshot by D33r-Gee · Pull Request #485 · bitcoin-core/gui-qml · GitHub
09:09 < phantomcircuit> i've been looking at initial block download times and noticed that we're recalculating block header hashes many many times (like 800+ times in cases), this can be fixed forever with an immutable block/header class(es)
09:10 < phantomcircuit> does anybody have thoughts on such an endeavor
09:10 < pinheadmz> i believe that PR will also require an upstream PR to expose some utxo snapshot thing in the interface
09:10 < fjahr> hi
09:10 < johnny9dev> It will. I suggested we maintain a patch until then
09:10 < pinheadmz> so thatll be the new, somewhat frustrating, process but i think the separation of interests there is good
09:11 < achow101> phantomcircuit: we're in a meeting, can add that as a topic if you want
09:11 < l0rinc> phantomcircuit: I have investigated that before, but don't have exact numbers
09:11 < darosior> phantomcircuit: interesting, but let's wait till other prepared meeting topics are done?
09:11 < Murch[m]> achow101: How long as #32144 been RFM when you say "it’s still probably rfm"?
09:11 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32144 | lint: Remove needless borrow to fix Clippy warning by strmfos · Pull Request #32144 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:11 < phantomcircuit> achow101, yeah i don't know how meeting works anymore, that was a request for it to be a topic
09:12 < johnny9dev> Anyway we're almost caught up with previous functionality. That's all from gui-qml
09:12 < achow101> Murch[m]: 3 or 4 weeks
09:12 < darosior> johnny9dev: nice
09:12 < Murch[m]> achow101: Any idea who should add their review or take a look at that for it to get merged?
09:14 < Murch[m]> Sorry, #31244, not what I wrote
09:14 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31244 | descriptors: MuSig2 by achow101 · Pull Request #31244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
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09:14 < achow101> Murch[m]: anyone who is familiar with descriptors, or it could be merged
09:14 < Murch[m]> It does have ACKs from w0xlt, rkrux, theStack, and Sjors
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09:15 < achow101> #topic dbwrapper read/write asymmetry (l0rinc)
09:15 < l0rinc> dbwrapper writes currently pretend to return bool but always return true, while real errors surface via exceptions – #33042 makes that explicit, but we need to decide the canonical error path
09:15 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/33042 | refactor: inline constant return values from `dbwrapper` write methods by l0rinc · Pull Request #33042 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:16 < l0rinc> `read` catches the exception and returns, but `write` always returned `true`, while throwing in the background
09:17 < achow101> how do errors currently propagate? crashing everything?
09:17 < l0rinc> most of the time yes
09:17 < TheCharlatan> they are eventually converted to FatalError's yeah
09:18 < l0rinc> is the removal of the fake return value enough here or do we need to unify the read/write interfaces?
09:18 < achow101> if we can't write state to disk, that does seem like a situation where we'd want to abort anyways
09:18 < glozow> Murch: achow101: will have a look at #31244 later today
09:18 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31244 | descriptors: MuSig2 by achow101 · Pull Request #31244 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:19 < achow101> if the return value is never used, then we should not return it
09:19 < TheCharlatan> rewriting it to propagate an error code seems riskier than just removing what is essentially dead code.
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09:19 < rkrux> glozow: thanks
09:20 < l0rinc> thanks for the feedback, I'll add these comments to the PR - unless the authors want to
09:20 < darosior> TheCharlatan: +1
09:21 < achow101> #topic CI migration to Cirrus Runners (willcl-ark)
09:21 < willcl-ark> Myself and @m3dwards have been working on a change to migrate to our CI to hosted Cirrus Runners. This is now open in #32989.
09:21 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32989 | ci: Migrate CI to hosted Cirrus Runners by willcl-ark · Pull Request #32989 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:21 < willcl-ark> The benefits and various tradeoffs of such a move are detailed in the top comment in the PR, but in summary it should make the CI maintainable by more people, not be reliant on the current infrastructure, and also provide "easier scaling"; if you want to scale more machines, just throw more $$ at the problem. These are fleshed out further in the PR, and we'd welcome feedback there.
09:21 < achow101> ack
09:21 < willcl-ark> Moving to our own runners also has a knock-on effect that all the (current) "cirrus" jobs will run on your own forks slower, on GH free runners, so self-hosting a cirrus runner may no longer be necessary if speed it not an issue for you. Forks (like inquisition) would be able to buy their own runners if they wanted faster runners for their repos too, and enable with a trivial patch.
09:22 < willcl-ark> I wanted to highlight it in a meeting just to try and alert as many people to it as possible, in case there was any opposition to it which hadn't been raised yet. Naturally, we are also looking for more reviewers too! So if anyone has any interest, then feel free to consider this a review-beg as well :)
09:22 < willcl-ark> That's all from me on that topic, unless anyone has any questions they'd like to ask about it here.
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09:23 < achow101> #topic ibd recalculating block hashes (phantomcircuit)
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09:24 < achow101> we don't store the hash in CBlockHeader?
09:24 < phantomcircuit> so i instrumented cblockheader::gethash to count how many times we reclculate the headers hash and i got some extreme outliers like 800+ times, i think this has to do with receiving blocks out of order during IBD and the behavior of activatebestchain
09:26 < achow101> If there's a measuable performance improvement in IBD, then I think that seems like a good idea
09:26 < phantomcircuit> achow101, so the block headers are about the same length as the hash and we reference the block headers with the hash, so in most places we should already have the hash and know that we haven't changed it. though the logic for that doesn't flow through everywhere, so we end up calling gethash more than we should 
09:26 < l0rinc> phantomcircuit: I can take another look at it, though making blocks mostly immutable isn't trivial
09:27 < darosior> sha256 over 80 bytes of data should be quite fast. But yeah if we do indeed do it 800+ times (!!) for every single header in the chain that does sound like it could speed things up.
09:27 < phantomcircuit> it trades memory usage for performance but the dbcache is already huge so whatever, an additional 45mb of memory usage to cache the block header hashes along with the the headers 
09:28 < achow101> hmm, that is 10% of default dbcache though
09:28 < darosior> That sounds non-trivial
09:28 < phantomcircuit> we usually do it several times per header but in the perverse case it is 800+ times 
09:28 < l0rinc> I've pushed a few changes deduplicating hash calculations already - should be slightly less than that now. Are you saying that the exact same block has 800+ recalculations?
09:28 < fjahr> how often have you seen the perverse case?
09:28 < darosior> ceteris paribus i expect 45mb of dbcache to speed IBD more so than caching a sha256 over 80 bytes
09:28 < phantomcircuit> it depends on the behavior of activatebestchain when the blocks are received out of order, I think 
09:29 < achow101> if we already know the hash elsewhere, can we use it in more places rather than caching the hash again?
09:29 < phantomcircuit> l0rinc, yes, one block header has 800 recalculations 
09:29 < phantomcircuit> fjahr, my graphs suck so I don't know, but it was bad 
09:30 < darosior> I'd be very curious to learn more about the situation in which we re-calculate the same header hash 800 times
09:30 < l0rinc> We can likely cache some of those locally, I tried making the blocks immutable and it was quite messy
09:30 < TheCharlatan> achow101 that seems like my intuition too. After all we do save it in the index with every header already.
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09:30 < phantomcircuit> darosior, it's dependent on the out of order activatebestchain, so it won't show in normal unit tests or anything 
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09:31 < l0rinc> I have doubts about the 800 recalculations, seems like a miscalculation to me (I have also investigated this and haven't found anything like that) - but we can do that after the meeting as well
09:31 < lightlike> why 45MB? isn't the CBlockHeader objects freed once the block is no longer in memory (other than the CBlockIndex)?
09:32 < phantomcircuit> l0rinc, it's annoying and you won't see the behavior with blocks received in order 
09:32 < achow101> it definitely seems there's something to look at here. phantomcircuit I suggest you work with l0rinc and the others who have also been looking at ibd improvements and benchmarking
09:32 < darosior> +1
09:33 < achow101> #topic Benchmarking WG Update (josie, l0rinc)
09:33 < furszy> memory shouldn't be a concern, could directly use the phashBlock field from the index.
09:33 < phantomcircuit> the way to have the immutable header and block classes is to have it silently convert between the two with constructors 
09:33 < achow101> (missed this during the wg update section)
09:33 < l0rinc> I have doubts about the 800 recalculations, seems like a miscalculation to me (I have also investigated this and haven't found anything like that) - but we can do that after the meeting as well
09:33 < phantomcircuit> then slowly change from mutable to immutable everywhere 
09:33 < l0rinc> sorry, wrong message
09:34 < l0rinc> #31144 and #32279 were just merged, we're making good progress. The next important ones where reviewers are needed are:
09:34 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31144 | [IBD] multi-byte block obfuscation by l0rinc · Pull Request #31144 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:34 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32279 | [IBD] prevector: store `P2WSH`/`P2TR`/`P2PK` scripts inline by l0rinc · Pull Request #32279 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:34 < l0rinc> #31645 The batch size for UTXO set writes is now calculated based on the maximum dbcache size to ensure that with the default values, memory usage doesn't increase, while reducing flushing time when there is enough memory available.
09:34 < l0rinc> The change reduces the IBD time by a fixed amount, it's speeding up a critical part of saving the state for long-term storage.
09:34 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31645 | [IBD] flush UTXO set in batches proportional to `dbcache` size by l0rinc · Pull Request #31645 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:34 < l0rinc> #32497 Set accurate capacity for Merkle root calculation to avoid reallocations
09:34 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32497 | merkle: pre‑reserve leaves to prevent reallocs with odd vtx count by l0rinc · Pull Request #32497 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:35 < achow101> l0rinc: can you suggest a specific one people should focus on first?
09:35 < l0rinc> one is very simple  #32497
09:35 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/32497 | merkle: pre‑reserve leaves to prevent reallocs with odd vtx count by l0rinc · Pull Request #32497 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:35 < l0rinc> the other one needs some reproducers #31645 - any help would be appreciated in both
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09:35 < corebot> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/31645 | [IBD] flush UTXO set in batches proportional to `dbcache` size by l0rinc · Pull Request #31645 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub
09:37 < achow101> Any other topics to discuss this week?
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09:38 < achow101> #endmeeting
09:38 < corebot> achow101: Meeting ended at 2025-07-31T16:38+0000
09:38 < corebot> achow101: Raw log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-07-31_16_00.log.json
09:38 < corebot> achow101: Formatted log: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-07-31_16_00.log.html
09:38 < corebot> achow101: Minutes: https://achow101.com/ircmeetings/2025/bitcoin-core-dev.2025-07-31_16_00.html
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09:39 < achow101> phantomcircuit: if you have things you'd like to discuss in a meeting, you can use prepent #proposedmeetingtopic to your message
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10:04 < Murch[m]> Thanks glozow
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11:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow opened pull request #33106: [WIP] policy: lower the default blockmintxfee, incrementalrelayfee, minrelaytxfee (master...2025-07-minrelay) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33106
11:16 < darosior> Oo
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11:28 < l0rinc> phantomcircuit: looks like I was wrong, thanks for the hint, I have instrumented `CBlockHeader::GetHash` to display the hash that it just calculated and even the first 200k blocks contain hundreds (sometimes even thousands) of hash calculations, e.g. `0000000000000475da936e766d0e3ebf8eb41f0f21f6bcdc7f8a03d80bd495a` is calculated 1018 times. I'll investigate further. 
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11:40 < lightlike> we also call CBlockHeader::GetHash for different objects, for example we process a header from a peer (even if we already know the header) we calculate the hash. immutability or cashing won't help with that.
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11:51 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] fanquake closed pull request #32959: Reduce minrelaytxfee to 100 sats/kvB (master...reduce-minrelaytxfee) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/32959
11:52 < l0rinc> lightlike: Yes, it also doesn't help when re-reading from disk. But since I have only seen 4-8 recalculations per block so far (and it looks indeed like some scenarios does a lot more, which we can likely deduplicate locally) an investigation makes sense.
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11:55 < phantomcircuit> l0rinc, so i instrumented it to keep a counter because we end up with headers before blocks, so instead of looking at how many times we're calculating the same header hash, i was looking at how many times we're calculating the hash of a distinct object
11:55 < phantomcircuit> since i expect us to be calculating the same header a few times legitimately
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11:57 < lightlike> l0rinc: yes - as furszy said above, in many situations we should also have the CBlockIndex available, so we could take the hash from there instead of recalculating it from the CBlockHeader.
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13:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow pushed 13 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/aef2dbb40276...5ee4e7966957
13:52 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 5fe4c66 Ava Chow: XOnlyPubKey: Add GetCPubKeys
13:52 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8811312 Ava Chow: script/parsing: Allow Const to not skip the found constant
13:52 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 12bc1d0 Ava Chow: util/string: Allow Split to include the separator
13:52 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] glozow merged pull request #31244: descriptors: MuSig2 (master...musig2-desc) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/31244
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14:14 < bitcoin-git> [gui-qml] D33r-Gee opened pull request #488: ALT QML Snapshot Load (qt6...alt-qml-snapshotload) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui-qml/pull/488
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14:23 < darosior> "DoS resistance is clearly insufficient even at 1s/vB". Rationale: "trust me bro". Reasons to give weight to my opinion: "i also believe Bitcoin's value has gone *down* since the 1sat/vb limit was introduced".
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16:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 pushed 2 commits to master: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/compare/5ee4e7966957...8712e074bb54
16:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 0431a69 Lőrinc: cleanup: remove unused `ser_writedata16be` and `ser_readdata16be`
16:13 < bitcoin-git> bitcoin/master 8712e07 Ava Chow: Merge bitcoin/bitcoin#33093: refactor: remove unused `ser_writedata16be` a...
16:13 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] achow101 merged pull request #33093: refactor: remove unused `ser_writedata16be` and `ser_readdata16be` (master...l0rinc/serialization-cleanup) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33093
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20:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] cccccccchhhh opened pull request #33109: Create chris.txt (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33109
20:06 < bitcoin-git> [bitcoin] DrahtBot closed pull request #33109: Create chris.txt (master...master) https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/33109
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23:09 < bitcoin-git> [gui] DrahtBot closed pull request #877: gui: Add a menu action to restore then migrate a legacy wallet (master...gui-migrate-path) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/877
23:09 < bitcoin-git> [gui] DrahtBot reopened pull request #877: gui: Add a menu action to restore then migrate a legacy wallet (master...gui-migrate-path) https://github.com/bitcoin-core/gui/pull/877
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 01 00:00:57 2025