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07:58 < gleb> fanquake: I feel like making it rust will make utreexo implementation much more attractive :)
07:59 < gleb> (not for me tho, at least not right now)
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08:39 < emilengler> meta: Maybe someone could take a look at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17772
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08:55 < fanquake> gleb I agree
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09:33 < jonatack> Hi everyone, we'll get started a little under a half hour
09:34 < jonatack> About the session notes today: if you have any corrections or improvements to suggest, please share!
09:35 < jonatack> I'd like the notes, questions, and discussion to be a resource that people can use or come back to on this subject.
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10:00 < jonatack> #startmeeting
10:00 < MarcoFalke> hi     
10:00 < fanquake> hi     
10:00 < emzy>  Hi     
10:00 < jonatack> Hi all! Welcome to this week's episode of the Bitcoin Core PR Review club!
10:00 < amiti> hi     
10:00 < jnewbery_6> hi     
10:00 < jonatack> #topic Today we are looking at PR 17639, "Add make check-valgrind to run the unit tests under Valgrind (tests)".
10:00 < jonatack> We usually start Bitcoin Core IRC meetings with a 'hi' so it's clear who's at keyboard. Feel free to say hi, even if you arrive in the middle of the meeting!
10:00 < jkczyz> hi     
10:00 < jonatack> Please jump in at any point with thoughts and questions. Don't be shy! This discussion is about your thoughts and input.
10:00 < jonatack> If you didn't have the chance to read the notes yet, I encourage you to do so.
10:00 < michaelfolkson> hi     
10:00 < jonatack> I think they provide a good background summary for this discussion and for reviewing the PR.
10:00 < jonatack> For today's episode, I thought we could begin by talking about review of this PR.
10:00 < jonatack> And then springboard from the PR out to a larger discussion on preventing errors like this
10:01 < jonatack> both on an individual level of integrating helpful tools into our testing and reviewing workflow
10:01 < michaelfolkson> Excellent
10:01 < michaelfolkson> *notes
10:01 < jonatack> and on the broader level of the Bitcoin Core project itself
10:01 < kanzure> hi     
10:01 < jonatack> which is certainly an issue that the maintainers are thinking about
10:01 < jonatack> That said, feel free to digress, comment, and ask questions at any time without waiting. Just jump in and go for it. The more the merrier!
10:01 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: ty
10:02 < jonatack> #topic Did you review the PR? Thoughts? Concept ACK, approach ACK, ACK <commit>, or NACK?
10:02 < jonatack> Were you able to run the unit tests with valgrind?
10:03 < jonatack> For me, they start but then seem stalled at "Running 387 test cases...", so i need to debug that
10:03 < michaelfolkson> Not on Mac OS. Getting set up on Ubuntu now
10:04 < amiti> I was v disappointed to find out that valgrind is incompatible with catalina
10:04 < jonatack> yes, macOS users get better clang and worse valgrinding, iiuc
10:04 < emzy> ACK. But I had to remove "--exit-on-first-error=yes --error-exitcode=1" from the makefile. Because my debian 10 has only valgrind-3.12.0.SVN
10:05 < jonatack> emzy: good point, that flag is v3.14 and later
10:05 < emzy> jonatack: right
10:06 < jonatack> i was surprised that the unit tests hang, because the functional tests run for me with the --valgrind flag (though they time out and i have to fiddle with the suppresions file)
10:06 < jonatack> suppressions*
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10:06 < fanquake> emzy how are you installing it? Debian 10 has Valgrind 3.14: https://packages.debian.org/buster/valgrind
10:07 < jonatack> note that there is a good first issue opened by MarcoFalke to fix the functional test valgrind timeouts to make it more useable
10:08 < emzy> fanquake: my bad. I have Debian GNU/Linux 9.11 (stretch) on that machine... I have to update.
10:08 < MarcoFalke> Jup, it is for the ci/travis run. Looks like someone is working on it already: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17770
10:09 < andrewtoth_> hi     
10:10 < jonatack> nice. the GFI tag seems to work well.
10:10 < jonatack> emzy: so today's PR worked for you after rm-ing that flag? How long did the unit tests take to run?
10:11 < emzy> jonatack: not shure. I will run it now, and time it.
10:12 < michaelfolkson> Will they be done by the end of this meeting?
10:12 < MarcoFalke> I'd say no
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10:13 < jonatack> emzy: i'm interested, because reading the manual and searching online i saw varying perf figures: 3x, 10x, 30-40x, 50x, and up to 300x slowdowns
10:13 < jonatack> it's module-dependent, but here we're interested in the default memcheck perf, i think
10:14 < emzy> I think it was about 20 min. But I was not watching :)
10:14 < emzy> I was building without qt.
10:14 < jonatack> emzy: be sure to put your review on GH when you can.
10:15 < emzy> ok     
10:15 < jonatack> topic Have you tried reproducing and catching the uninitialized read errors that were found?
10:15 < jonatack> #topic Have you tried reproducing and catching the uninitialized read errors that were found?
10:15 < emzy> no     
10:17 < MarcoFalke> I think both of them need a node that has finished IBD
10:17 < jonatack> I did a few days ago while reviewing one of practicalswift's valgrind PRs. MarcoFalke: yes i was out of IBD.
10:18 < jonatack> Thanks to help from MarcoFalke and practitalswift. The main issue for me was the suppressions file needed additions.
10:20 < michaelfolkson> One of them needed booting up on mainnet to replicate I read but not full IBD. Made me feel bad about always running tests on regtest
10:20 < jonatack> Question: which of the tools mentioned in the notes do you like using for your own workflow, or plan to adopt?
10:22 < jonatack> e.g. MSan, valgrind, -Werror= / -Wconditional=, etc
10:22 < jonatack> each of them seems to have tradeoffs
10:23 < jonatack> MSan is cumbersome to set up and use AFAICT
10:23 < jonatack> Valgrind seems even slower than MSan
10:23 < michaelfolkson> MSan works on Mac?
10:24 < michaelfolkson> It appears no
10:24 < amiti> I tried using the memory sanitizer on mac & ran into issues as well
10:25 < jonatack> MSan compat: in https://clang.llvm.org/docs/MemorySanitizer.html it says Linux/NetBSD/FreeBSD
10:25 < jonatack> I'm learning here too
10:26 < jonatack> amiti: can you describe the issues you encountered?
10:26 < michaelfolkson> Regardless these tools are intense. Are we moving to a world with two tiers of testers? Most that don't run these tools and a small minority that do?
10:26 < amiti> I'm trying to remember ...
10:27 < jonatack> I have not yet tried MSan, only valgrind and various clang compile flags
10:27 < emzy> would it be enough to run Valgrind on one OS. Or have you also check on others?
10:28 < jonatack> practicalswift did a tutorial here on installing MSan in a Bitcoin Core issue: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/17620#issuecomment-559156227
10:28 < jonatack> he walked provoostenator through it to help get him set up
10:29 < michaelfolkson> Or we try to identify which tests should be run with Valgrind, MSan and which don't need to be...
10:29 < MarcoFalke> emzy: In theory it would have to be run on each shipped binary (thus each OS), because slightly different code is compiled for each OS
10:29 < MarcoFalke> michaelfolkson: All tests should be run in valgrind, msan, ... etc :)
10:30 < emzy> ok makes sense. could be that there are OS specific code segments.
10:31 < michaelfolkson> MarcoFalke: But there could be two tiers of testers? A non-Valgrind/MSan tested ACK and a Valgrind tested ACK?
10:31 < MarcoFalke> emzy: Jup
10:31 < jonatack> MarcoFalke: how feasible does it seem to have CI run these (assuming the CI provider works properly...)
10:32 < MarcoFalke> jonatack: It already does :)
10:32 < jonatack> oh?     
10:32 < emzy> nice
10:32 < jonatack> Things move fast on Bitcoin Core :)
10:32 < MarcoFalke> Heh, this is on current master: https://travis-ci.org/bitcoin/bitcoin/jobs/626430212
10:32 < michaelfolkson> Ah     
10:33 < MarcoFalke> It wraps all binaries in valgrind (see the wrap-valgrind step and https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/ci/test/wrap-valgrind.sh )
10:34 < MarcoFalke> Then runs the tests as normal (make check && ./test/functional/test_runner.py)
10:34 < MarcoFalke> Well, not all functional tests
10:34 < MarcoFalke> See https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17770
10:35 < emzy> "make check-valgrind" took 21 minutes for me. "./configure --enable-hardening --without-gui --disable-wallet"
10:36 < jonatack> emzy: that's reasonable, something i could run on critical PRs
10:37 < emzy> I will try again on Debian 10. Maybe the newer valgrind is slower.
10:38 < jonatack> MarcoFalke: Is there a CI build that runs memory checks than valgrind? MSan, Werror, etc?
10:38 < jonatack> other than*
10:38 < MarcoFalke> not yet
10:38 < jonatack> What plans?
10:39 < MarcoFalke> I presume the -Werror=uninitialized had a lot of false positives?
10:39 < MarcoFalke> MSan is a subset of what valgrind does, so it doesn't seem worth it
10:40 < MarcoFalke> Source: https://github.com/google/sanitizers/wiki/MemorySanitizer (search for "subset")
10:41 < jonatack> This article suggests some advantages of sanitizers over valgrind https://lemire.me/blog/2019/05/16/building-better-software-with-better-tools-sanitizers-versus-valgrind/
10:42 < jonatack> MarcoFalke's link: "MSan implements a subset of functionality found in Valgrind (Memcheck tool). It is significantly faster than Memcheck (TODO:benchmark)."
10:43 < jonatack> #topic Is it feasible to run the unit tests in parallel with valgrind?
10:43 < MarcoFalke> I mean I won't object someone contributing a ci run that builds with msan
10:43 < MarcoFalke> jonatack: Yes, travis does it
10:44 < MarcoFalke> See my link above
10:45 < MarcoFalke> Takes about 30 minutes (with wallet unit tests, etc), but it works
10:45 < jonatack> I recall the Valgrind manual has a section about running in parallel
10:45 < jonatack> MarcoFalke: great!
10:45 < fanquake> 27m26.144s to run make check-valgrind inside a debian container on my machine
10:46 < fanquake> That's with minimum depends, so skipping a bunch of tests
10:47 < jonatack> I'd like to get in the habit of running individual unit tests with valgrind. For example, after working on a new test, doing a final valgrind check before pushing.
10:50 < michaelfolkson> I have a question on initialization. I'm trying to reconcile the advice from the video, basically "always initialize local variables" and Greg's "No constant is an acceptable random value"
10:51 < michaelfolkson> Greg's advice is Bitcoin specific right? Because a constant would be more dangerous than an uninitialized variable?
10:51 < jonatack> MarcoFalke: I don't recall false positives with the (few) times I tried -Werror but it was with the --enable-werror flag, which might be different?
10:52 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: good question
10:52 < MarcoFalke> michaelfolkson: How is valgrind supposed to find the uninitizlied variable when it was initialized by you?
10:53 < MarcoFalke> And how do you know what value to inizialize to when the value is supposed to be passed in or parsed from somwhere else?
10:54 < michaelfolkson> MarcoFalke: It isn't. But that's not the only reason we're using Valgrind?
10:54 < jonatack> michaelfolkson: as you probably remarked, i recapped gregory's thoughts in the notes about pre-initialising with dummy values, but i need to re-watch the video with those caveats in mind
10:54 < michaelfolkson> Greg's comment here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17627#issuecomment-562387426
10:55 < michaelfolkson> And the video I'm referring to is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-XUHPimq3o
10:55 < michaelfolkson> From Jon's notes
10:55 < MarcoFalke> michaelfolkson: no, we use valgrind for other checks as well (e.g. use-after-free, I believe)
10:55 < MarcoFalke> or whatever else valgrind checks for
10:56 < jonatack> the video went into which are the optimal dummy values for different types, and the question of pattern, random, fixed dummy vals
10:56 < jonatack> 3 minutes!
10:56 < jonatack> any last thoughts?
10:57 < MarcoFalke> So picking a constant as a random value is horribly wrong
10:57 < MarcoFalke> Picking a constant for a user preference (or similar) is less horrible, but still wrong
10:57 < michaelfolkson> Yup. That would surely apply to all software that relies on randomization not just Bitcoin
10:58 < michaelfolkson> Maybe I misunderstood the video but "always initialize local variables" seemed to be the advice
10:58 < MarcoFalke> It is not only about random values. Any value that is parsed/read/input from somewhere else (i.e. not the code)
10:59 < jonatack> OK let's wrap up. Feel free to continue after of course.
10:59 < jonatack> #action review this PR, ask questions, keep learning, keep sharpening your tools
10:59 < jonatack> #action see you next year!
10:59 < jonatack> #endmeeting
10:59 < michaelfolkson> OK cool. Many thanks jonatack and everyone else
11:00 < MarcoFalke> Thanks for hosting jonatack!
11:00 < michaelfolkson> Have a great Christmas :)
11:00 < MarcoFalke> Happy holidays everyone!
11:00 < jonatack> Thanks everyone, and ty to maintainers MarcoFalke and fanquake for joining us.
11:00 < emzy> Thanks and Happy holidays everyone!
11:01 < amiti> thanks all ! thanks for the notes & hosting jonatack
11:02 < jonatack> ty amiti :)
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