--- Log opened Wed Jul 14 00:00:06 2021
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10:00 < jnewbery> #startmeeting
10:00 < paving> hi
10:00 < glozow> hi
10:00 < neha> hi
10:00 < schmidty> hi
10:00 < dokkodo> hi!
10:00 < emzy> hi
10:00 < lightlike> hi
10:01 < jnewbery> hi folks. Welcome to PR review club!
10:01 < michaelfolkson> hi
10:01 < LarryRuane> hi
10:01 < bogosort> hi
10:01 < jnewbery> Feel free to say hi to let people know you're here (or not, lurkers also welcome!)
10:01 < Naiza> hi
10:01 < jnewbery> is anyone here for the first time?
10:01 < bogosort> me
10:01 < jnewbery> welcome bogosort!
10:01 < glozow> hi Naiza!!
10:01 < bogosort> thanks!
10:02 < Naiza> yes, me
10:02 < jnewbery> hi Naiza. Welcome :)
10:02 < dokkodo> I am as well
10:02 < Naiza> Hey! thanks a lot!
10:02 < jnewbery> Today's host is LarryRuane. Over to you, Larry
10:03 < glozow> waow! welcome Naiza bogosort dokkodo
10:03 < jnewbery> welcome dokkodo!
10:03 < LarryRuane> Thanks, John! The notes for today are here: https://bitcoincore.reviews/22350
10:03 < dokkodo> Thanks! I'm excited to be here :)
10:04 < LarryRuane> and today we're going to try something new, we're going to review a PR -- AND -- have me do a little hands-on demo of using gdb (debugger) to review the PR (well, any PR)
10:04 < LarryRuane> so I thought we'd start out as usual, discussion, questions, for about 30 minutes, then we can switch over to a Jitsi meeting room,
10:05 < LarryRuane> and there I'll share my screen, and go over some tips and tricks to using gdb ... with an eye especially to using gdb to review PRs
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10:05 < b10c> hi!
10:05 < LarryRuane> There's a link in the notes for the meeting room ... Hi b10c!
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10:06 < LarryRuane> I guess we'll start out as we usually do, who here had a chance to review the PR, what was your review approach? I like to always know also: Is there sufficient automated testing?
10:07 < emzy> n
10:07 < jnewbery> concept review y
10:07 < glozow> n
10:08 < LarryRuane> The one thing about this PR is it's on the simpler side, just so we could limit discussion to 30 minutes instead of an hour
10:08 < dokkodo> note y, pr n
10:08 < michaelfolkson> Just notes and previous PR review club session
10:09 < michaelfolkson> (on competing PRs)
10:09 < jnewbery> I don't think they need to be called competing. They could be considered independently.
10:10 < LarryRuane> Okay cool, so just to summarize the notes, for those who didn't have a chance to read them
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10:10 < LarryRuane> You're probably all familiar with `debug.log` in the data directory
10:10 < paving> concept: yes. Code: little bit
10:10 < LarryRuane> Which program writes to `debug.log`?
10:11 < michaelfolkson> jnewbery: Oh so it is possible 2 of the 3 could be merged? I just assumed only 1 of the 3 would
10:11 < glozow> bitcoind?
10:11 < jnewbery> or bitcoin-qt :)
10:12 < emzy> and not bitcoin-cli
10:12 < jnewbery> michaelfolkson: sure. They're doing different things
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10:12 < LarryRuane> jnewbery glozow emzy Yes, all correct ... why does it do that? Have this file been useful to you? If so, why?
10:13 < LarryRuane> I think we can talk about the relation of this PR to the others a bit later, once people are up to speed on this PR
10:13 < emzy> I use it all the time. To look if bitcoind is running right.
10:14 < jnewbery> LarryRuane: it's been very useful to me. I use the debug logs every day :)
10:14 < glozow> same, i can't remember the CLI commands so i just tail debug.log
10:14 < glozow> very exciting to see new tips
10:15 < emzy> I also like the debug.log more than requesting status via bitcoin-cli
10:15 < LarryRuane> Okay, so it's used to print messages that indicate what it's doing, what problems the node may be having ... stuff that's useful for debugging (hence the name), but also just for monitoring
10:15 < LarryRuane> What possible connection is there between this file and DDOS (distributed denial of service, or just DOS)?
10:15 < dokkodo> logging.cpp was referenced as the current strategy for shrinking the log
10:16 < glozow> well the logs take up space on our computer, and it takes time to write them
10:16 < paving>  resource exhaustion could occur by a remote peer grieffing the node
10:17 < LarryRuane> paving Right, that's a great term, grieffing! (Hadn't heard that before) ... which resource?
10:17 < paving>  disk
10:18 < jnewbery> disk space or (unlikely) disk i/o
10:18 < LarryRuane> yes! And notice that it might not be an intentional DDOS, there could be a bug that causes repeated maybe infinite logging, which would quickly fill up disk space, causing the node to crash
10:19 < LarryRuane> if this were the result of (say) a transaction (or a block), then every bitcoin core node in the world would crash! This would be quite horrible :)
10:19 < paving>  jnewbery good point about io
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10:19 < paving> and being specific about about which specific disk resource is being affected
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10:20 < LarryRuane> So the way `debug.log` is managed today, it grows forever as long as `bitcoind` runs ... dokkodo mentioned shrinking, when does this happen?
10:20 < LarryRuane> (hint this is in the notes)
10:20 < emzy> Only at restarts. 
10:20 < paving>  lnd has similar log segmenting, their logs have/had? the potential to grow exceptionally large
10:21 < dokkodo> when it exceeds 10MB
10:21 < dokkodo> or whoops, 11
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10:21 < dokkodo> (just double checked, haha)
10:21 < LarryRuane> yes, exactly
10:23 < michaelfolkson> paving: Interesting, it does seem like a common problem. Either have verbose logs and they grow too large or cut back and not get logging that might be useful
10:23 < LarryRuane> There's a PR dokkodo (i think) that limits logging in one way, this PR uses a different approach (rotation), see https://bitcoincore.reviews/21603 and question 5 
10:24 < paving> michaelfolkson yeah certainly so, hence logrotate tools etc
10:24 < LarryRuane> (question 5 in the current notes)
10:24 < glozow> how much logging is expected? like 1MB per week? 1MB per hour?
10:24 < paving>  glozow pertinent question!
10:25 < LarryRuane> paving Yes, logrotate, this PR does what that tool does internally (well, `logrotate` is a swiss army knife)
10:26 < jnewbery> glozow: very much depends how much logging you have enabled. The default (everything that's logPrintf() in the code) is not very verbose. If you start with --debug=all you'll get some very verbose categories like net, libevent and leveldb.
10:26 < LarryRuane> Without any extra logging enabled, I've seen tons of logging during syncing (especially IBD of course), but during normal operation, only some P2P messages and the UpdateTip messages, so not really very much
10:27 < LarryRuane> But I think the fear is that something could cause a large amount of unexpected logging
10:27 < lightlike> in IBD, then also the default can be quite verbose
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10:28 < LarryRuane> Also think about a raspberry-pi with limited disk space, and the user just sets it and forgets it ... even the normal logging could be enough to fill the disk
10:28 < glozow> so in some sense, as a safety net, never letting the log grow beyond a certain size helps
10:28 < paving>  glozow jnewbery LarryRuane I just checked a node, ~13 days of up time, debug is 23mb in size
10:28 < LarryRuane> paving good to know, thanks
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10:30 < LarryRuane> All the commercial systems (like data storage) that I'm aware of do internal log rotation, or use `logrotate`
10:30 < glozow> would that be an extra dependency?
10:31 < LarryRuane> Yes I think that's one of the downsides to using `logrotate` plus the fact that it's complicated to configure (I did that recently for our `debug.log` file and it took me a couple of hours to figure it out, but maybe that's just me :)  )
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10:32 < LarryRuane> Okay I think everyone's got a good background on this PR, shall we move to the video chat now?
10:32 < dokkodo> SGTM
10:33 < michaelfolkson> Wow us with your gdb ninja
10:33 < paving>  deque and fs.h I see are added
10:34 < b10c> compressing rotated logs should be helpful as the log messages are quite repetitive (I haven't checked your PR if you add it)
10:35 < paving>  yeah lnd gzip's their
10:35 < paving>  is LarryRuane broadcasting content on jitsi now? I don't see or hear anything
10:36 < jnewbery> paving: yes, it's happening at https://meet.jit.si/bitcoin-core-pr-reviews-22350
10:36 < jnewbery> paving: try refreshing the page if you don't see anything. jitsi can sometimes be a bit flakey
10:37 < paving>   jnewbery thanks it's probably on my browser's end
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10:43 < paving> I'll download it later, have fun all.  thanks Larry for hosting
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11:01 < jnewbery> thanks Larry. I've got to run now, but that was great!
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11:03 < bogosort> thanks Larry!
11:03 < glozow> thank you Larry!!
11:04 < dokkodo> thanks. i enjoyed this very much!
11:04 < svav> Thanks Larry!
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11:04 < jnewbery> #endmeeting
11:05 < michaelfolkson> Thanks LarryRuane!
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11:26 < emzy> Thanks LarryRuane!
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