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has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 08:59 -!- kouloumos [~kouloumos@62-10-208.netrun.cytanet.com.cy] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 08:59 -!- bitcoin_pleb_pau [~bitcoin_p@bras-base-barion1858w-grc-67-70-27-202-51.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:00 < glozow> #startmeeting 09:00 -!- baffler [~baffler@69-153-6-185.lightspeed.lsvlky.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:00 < glozow> Hello everyone! This is PR Review Club 09:00 < ekzyis> hi 09:00 < ziggie> hello 09:00 < glozow> Feel free to say hi so we know you're here 09:00 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> hi 09:00 < svav> Hi 09:00 -!- RRa [~RRa@43.245.196.203] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:00 < kouloumos> hi 09:00 < glozow> and let us know if it's your first time :) 09:00 < btckid> hi 09:00 * docallag Heya 09:00 < stickies-v> hi 09:01 < tarun> hi 09:01 < btckid> first time here 09:01 < sanya> hi, first time here 09:01 < sipa> hi 09:01 < RRa> hi, first time here 09:01 < michaelfolkson> hi 09:01 < glozow> Today we're looking at #23201, "Allow users to specify input weights when funding a transaction", which seems to be a favorite among lightning devs 09:01 < glozow> notes here: https://bitcoincore.reviews/23201 09:01 < glozow> btckid: sanya: RRa: welcome! 09:02 < glozow> Did any of you get a chance to review today's PR? y/n, and what was your review approach? 09:02 < michaelfolkson> s/lightning devs/t-bast :) 09:02 < ekzyis> n 09:02 < tarun> reviewed it (but quickly) 09:02 < svav> n but read the notes 09:02 < stickies-v> n, quick gloss soo will be lurking mostly 09:02 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> n. same as svav 09:03 < ziggie> y (but not testing) 09:03 -!- OliverOffing [~OliverOff@189.1.174.52] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:03 < glozow> that's good to know. since we're not all familiar, can anybody summarize what the PR does? 09:03 < btckid> y, but not testing 09:04 -!- g43 [~g@c-73-170-54-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:05 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> in my understanding, this PR creates a new way to find the input weight of an external input. prior, we used solving data, now we use wallet RPC's to get more accurate data. 09:05 < larryruane> hi .. built light code review 09:05 < stickies-v> it allows the (RPC) user to specify the exact weight (units) of external inputs they're using to construct a transaction 09:05 < glozow> bitcoin_pleb_pau: good answer, you're close :) we now allow the RPC caller to manually specify the input weight of an external input 09:05 < glozow> stickies-v: bingo! 09:05 < svav> It allows for accounting for any external inputs of a transaction in the fee estimation of the transaction, so that any transactions involving external inputs can be processed successfully 09:06 < tarun> is there a good source to understand external inputs? 09:06 < sipa> external input: just money received from someone else 09:06 < sipa> oh, no, i'm sorry 09:07 < glozow> external input = input that our wallet is unable to spend, because we don't control the keys, etc. 09:07 < glozow> i believe 09:07 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> I don't want to derail the conversation, but if ti doesn't, could glozow elaborate on what manually specifying entails? 09:07 < sipa> ignore me 09:07 < OliverOffing> So we're talking about a multi-sig tx, yes? Since it's an external input, I'm guessing it'd need at least 2 signatures… (sanity check) 09:07 < michaelfolkson> I think it is for wallets where we own the keys but it isn't the Core wallet right? 09:07 < glozow> bitcoin_pleb_pau: not derailing at all! good question. the weight is passed in as an argument to the RPC. 09:08 -!- brunoerg [~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:b8cd:7a20:7963:7278] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08 < michaelfolkson> Or at least we are able to spend the output. Like a Lightning channel close to our Bitcoin wallet? 09:08 < glozow> michaelfolkson: not sure what you're saying? this *is* the Core wallet code we're looking at 09:08 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> michaelfolkson The notes say it is useful for lightning channels, where the other party in the channel has a set of keys that we don't own 09:09 < michaelfolkson> Yeah I think the notes are wrong 09:09 < achow101> an external input is an input that the wallet is unable to solve for, where solving means that if it had private keys available, a spending transaction could be created 09:09 < achow101> this usually means that the wallet is unaware of those inputs as it is not watching for them, but there are some cases where the wallet may be watching for those inputs but lack solving data 09:09 < svav> I have a general question about GitHub. Where is there a description of the functionality of this (or any) PR, because when I look I just find the comments. Do you only get the code to look at, or does the PR submitter give a summary anywhere? 09:09 -!- jb55 [~jb55@user/jb55] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:09 < stickies-v> this technically doesn't have to be multisig though, right? Could just be a single input transaction where the keys of that single input are stored somewhere outside of core? 09:10 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> ok glozow thanks. in my understanding the argument is passed 'manually' but that doesn't mean it requires user handling, it's still done 'automatically' but just on a case-by-case basis, and this case-by-case is what your aiming at when you say manually? 09:10 < achow101> stickies-v: yes 09:10 < tarun> I too don't want to derail the convo, but doesn't the external input need to be known (and hence its weight) immediately prior to publishing and so why would we need to estimate? 09:10 < michaelfolkson> It is more the Core wallet doesn't understand how to spend the output than we are unable to spend the output using external wallet (e.g. Lightning wallet) 09:11 < achow101> tarun: we need to be able to estimate fees when setting the inputs for a transaction 09:11 < larryruane> svav: some (but not most) PRs reference a GitHub "issue" (aka a ticket) that usually explains more background; in this case there is a ticket: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23187 09:11 < glozow> stickies-v: yes. OliverOffing: i usually think of multisig as a single input. perhaps a more clear example here is a transaction with multiple inputs, controlled by us and other parties 09:12 < glozow> tarun: when we're funding the transaction, we're trying to put fees on it to reach a target feerate. if we don't know what the weight will be, we won't know how much in fees to put on it 09:12 < tarun> ok thank you. it seems the estimate is needed in deciding which other inputs might be used. 09:12 < stickies-v> tarun: I think what you might be missing is that a known scriptpubkey can have an unknown scriptsig length. E.g. if you know a P2SH scriptpubkey, you don't know how long the scriptsig is going to be (script is unknown until input is spent) 09:13 < glozow> (So we've answered Question #4 in the notes) 09:13 < tarun> ok. thank you that is helpful. 09:13 < glozow> great. let's also answer the first question which is about motivation - What are some use cases of allowing external inputs to be used in send, walletcreatefundedpsbt, fundrawtransaction, and bumpfee? 09:14 < tarun> sorry for jumping the gun glozow :) 09:15 * docallag Spending from a LN channel to an onchain transaction (submarine swap)? 09:15 < larryruane> I was surprised `fundrawtransaction` is on this list, because doesn't that fund (only) from sources (UTXOs) that this wallet has the keys for? So wouldn't it know the size? 09:15 < glozow> tarun: no worries! it's a fundamental part of understanding the PR so thanks for bringing it up. the ordering of questions isn't that important 09:16 < achow101> larryruane: fundrawtransaction can take specified inputs which may be external 09:16 < glozow> larryruane: nope, fundrawtransaction doesn't need to only use internal inputs 09:16 < larryruane> ok thanks, in case anyone's wondering: https://bitcoinexplorer.org/rpc-browser?method=fundrawtransaction#Help-Content 09:17 * glozow doesn't know how submarine swaps work, but thanks docallag for providing an answer 09:17 < michaelfolkson> Basically any complex script that the Core wallet doesn't understand (at least until the Core wallet supports Miniscript) 09:17 < larryruane> i see now, `fundrawtransaction` can take an argument that already includes some inputs, got it 09:18 < achow101> michaelfolkson: miniscript does not cover all cases either. e.g. Lightniing HTLCs are not valid miniscript 09:18 < glozow> michaelfolkson: no, it's not about understanding, it's about knowing what the input will look like. miniscript doesn't help with this. 09:18 < achow101> glozow: miniscript does help if provided as solving_data 09:19 < glozow> ah because it tells you max spend size? 09:19 < btckid> sorry not clear for me the possible use cases 09:19 < achow101> yes 09:20 < michaelfolkson> A collaborative Lightning channel close is just a spend from a 2-of-2. If you want to construct a transaction from that 2-of-2 to a single key address in your Core wallet? 09:21 < ziggie> larryruane>Note that all existing inputs must have their previous output transaction be in the wallet> so I guess this PR introduces this possiblity to include inputs thats are external ? 09:21 < ziggie> concerning the fundrawtransaction command 09:22 < michaelfolkson> It gets a bit complicated because with Lightning you are dealing with two wallets, a Lightning wallet and the Core wallet. And the Core wallet doesn't understand what the Lightning wallet is doing 09:22 < achow101> michaelfolkson: no. the lightning use case here is to be able to spend HTLCs because the wallet does not recognize HTLCs, even if tracking those outputs 09:22 < achow101> s/spend/fund a transaction spending HTLC inputs 09:23 < achow101> and unilateral closes as those are a complex script 09:23 < docallag> cccccclvtngetjekdrftvirnijtrucvirluulckneggf 09:23 < glozow> presumably you can specify the input weight spending from the (as mentioned previously, non-standard HTLC) outputs in your fee-bumping child 09:23 < docallag> cccccclvtngevdchrkfejhgnccehrigbkeunjuvjutjf 09:23 < michaelfolkson> So spending from a commitment transaction (ie not a collaborative 2-of-2 close) 09:23 < docallag> sorry 09:24 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> poetry 09:24 < achow101> michaelfolkson: yes 09:24 < michaelfolkson> The Core wallet would understand a spend from a 2-of-2 but it wouldn't understand the hash lock, time lock etc. Ok yeah, thanks 09:24 < svav> Why doesn't the original issue give more information about the use cases? It does not seem very detailed https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/23187 09:25 -!- brunoerg [~brunoerg@2804:14d:5281:8ae2:b8cd:7a20:7963:7278] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:25 < btckid> svav: agree 09:26 < svav> Also, is the current status that the type of transactions referenced by this issue simply cannot happen? 09:26 < kouloumos> svav it actually links to a comment on the previous PR which shows how the issue came to be 09:26 < glozow> i believe so. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/17211#issuecomment-933656171 09:27 < glozow> yeah, #23187 links to the conversation between tbast and achow 09:27 -!- RRa [~RRa@43.245.196.203] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 09:28 < michaelfolkson> svav: Just that you can't work out if you enough inputs to pay the estimated fee (I think) 09:28 < glozow> it looks like we've answered the first 4 questions so i'll move on the next, if people are comfortable? 09:29 < glozow> ok cool 09:29 -!- g43 [~g@c-73-170-54-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 09:29 < btckid> ok 09:29 < glozow> The RPCs will throw a `JSONRPCError: RPC_INVALID_PARAMETER` if the specified weight is below 165. Why can’t the weight of an input be less than 165? 09:29 < michaelfolkson> svav: You might think you have enough in your inputs to pay the estimated fee but then later you realize you don't 09:29 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> Question: Does using an RPC call to request the weight of an external input sacrifice some privacy because it conveys what kind of script-spending-conditions are associated with a public key? 09:29 < achow101> michaelfolkson: for external inputs, if their size cannot be estimated, the funding will simply fail 09:30 -!- g99 [~g@c-73-170-54-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:30 < glozow> bitcoin_pleb_pau: no, the resulting transaction should look the same regardless of what kinds of arguments you passed to the RPC 09:31 < michaelfolkson> achow101: You mean the wallet won't try? In theory it could try and occasionally fail right? 09:31 < docallag> glozow given the sig size it couldn't be smaller than 165? 09:31 < achow101> bitcoin_pleb_pau: not anymore than broadcasting the final transaction would be 09:31 < glozow> docallag: well, not all inputs need a signature 09:32 < glozow> hint: how large is the smallest possible input? https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0144.mediawiki#serialization 09:32 < glozow> hint #2: how is weight calculated? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/d0bf9bb6a539f151ec92725d20a2b6c22cb095a5/src/consensus/validation.h#L155-L159 09:32 < achow101> michaelfolkson: if a pre-selected input is set and its size is unable to be estimated, coin selection will fail. 09:32 < OliverOffing> bitcoin_pleb_pau when you say RPC call, do you mean from the wallet to the node? 09:33 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> OliverOffing yes 09:33 < glozow> OliverOffing: the wallet doesn't communicate with the node via RPC. this would be the user talking to the wallet via RPC. 09:33 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> i mean...no. 09:34 < glozow> ok let's break down the components of the smallest possible input (i.e. a completely empty input) 09:35 < glozow> we can calculate it together 09:35 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> I need to brush up on my understanding of RPCs...I always assumed it was only between nodes, but glozow points out, if i understand, that when you are manipulating your wallet, your wallet is communicating with Your OWN node via RPC? 09:36 < glozow> if you see the link to GetTransactionInputWeight, you'll see that the weight = 4 * serialized size of nonwitness data + serialized size of witness data 09:36 < achow101> bitcoin_pleb_pau: RPC is not used to communicate between nodes nor between any components of core. it is an external interface for users to interact with Core in a programmatic way 09:36 < glozow> nodes communicate with each other via the P2P protocol, which is built on TCP/IP 09:37 < ziggie> (size of outpoint + sequence + empty scriptSig) *4 09:37 -!- ekzyis [~ekzyis@p5dd84be3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 09:37 < glozow> ziggie: exactly! :) 09:37 < ziggie> for the nonwitness part 09:37 -!- gleb7454 [~gleb@178.150.137.228] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:37 < glozow> the outpoint is txid + index in vout 09:38 < stickies-v> I think we need (32 txhash + 4 txindex + 1 scriptlen +4 sequenco_no) * 4 bytes = 164? 09:38 < glozow> txid size should be easy - can someone tell us how many bytes that is? 09:38 < kouloumos> 32 09:38 < glozow> stickies-v: very good! 09:38 < stickies-v> sorry not bytes, WUs 09:38 < ziggie> + 1 empty fitness stickies-v> 09:38 < glozow> kouloumos: yes 09:38 < ziggie> = 165 09:38 < glozow> ziggie: bingo. empty witness requires 1 byte to encode its size, which is 0 09:38 < stickies-v> yeah I was wondering where that last one went haha, thx 09:39 < glozow> stickies-v: my hint was going to be that since it's 1 mod 4, it must be in the witness 09:39 < glozow> awesome. thanks ziggie, stickies-v, kouloumos! that's why the input can't possibly be less than 165 weight units. 09:40 < OliverOffing> According to this, Witness data is not 09:40 < OliverOffing> multiplied by 4 (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weight_units) 09:40 < OliverOffing> when calculating the weight… or am I missing something? 09:41 < glozow> OliverOffing: yes, that's why it's 164 + 1 = 165 09:41 < glozow> hopefully that makes sense? 09:41 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> if it were, it would be 164+4=168 09:41 < glozow> right 09:41 < stickies-v> the 1 byte empty scriptsig is the only witness data in this basic tx 09:42 < OliverOffing> got it 09:42 < glozow> great 09:42 < OliverOffing> thanks 09:42 < glozow> In the interface modified by this PR, how would a user call `fundrawtransaction` to specify a maximum input weight? 09:45 < OliverOffing> With a new argument called `input_weights` which is expected to contain an array of dicts, which should include the fields `txid`, `vout`, and the explicitly defined `weight` of that tx 09:46 < glozow> OliverOffing: yep! in other words, a mapping from outpoint to max weight 09:46 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> can we elaborate on the data structure? 09:46 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> each array entry is a dict? 09:46 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> and inside each dict includes the fields 'txid' 'vout' and probably others? 09:47 < tarun> what are the values? the corresponding weight? 09:47 < OliverOffing> this might make it more clear https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23201/files#diff-26141d9c7da21eeb4b9e3ffedfaad83212d4710a9e62888f7abea076ca1d0538R676-R686 09:47 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> thx 09:48 < glozow> each element of the array corresponds to an input. the element is represented as a dict with keys txid, vout, and weight. 09:48 < OliverOffing> hm, would it make sense to rename the field to `max_weight` instead then? 09:49 < glozow> i don't know if that's better. there's not going to be a `min_weight` or anything 09:50 < OliverOffing> i guess the code base usually calls it just `weight` because it usually knows the exact number -- external inputs is kind of an edge case 09:52 < glozow> Alright we've got <10 minute so let's try to get through the next few questions 09:52 < glozow> What is a Compact Size Unsigned Integer? Where is it used in the Bitcoin protocol? 09:52 < glozow> (Bonus question: is it part of consensus rules?) 09:53 < Kaizen_Kintsugi_> is it part of serialization? 09:53 < glozow> Kaizen_Kintsugi_: yep 09:53 < glozow> elaborate? 09:53 < OliverOffing> it's a variable-length (unsigned) integer 09:53 < btckid> it's a varibale size unsigned integer 09:53 < Kaizen_Kintsugi_> I am unable too 09:53 < glozow> OliverOffing: btckid: perfect, and where is it used? 09:54 < Kaizen_Kintsugi_> has something to with endian formatting? 09:54 < btckid> distinct to varint 09:54 < svav> https://btcinformation.org/en/developer-reference#compactsize-unsigned-integers 09:54 < larryruane> definitely part of consensus rules 09:54 < OliverOffing> well I'm just looking things up now but apparently it's pretty common everywhere in the Bitcoin P2P protocol 09:55 < OliverOffing> why is it called "Compact" as opposed to "Variable-length Unsigned Integer"? :) 09:55 < glozow> yep, usually used to encode things like how many stack elements you have, how many bytes something is, etc. 09:55 < svav> Compact because it saves data probably - a guess 09:55 -!- Talkless [~Talkless@mail.dargis.net] has joined #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews 09:55 < btckid> my confusion is when `Compact Size Unsigned Integer` us used  vs `varint` 09:55 < glozow> presumably because you save a lot of space when you're encoding small numbers 09:56 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> so varint would be the one used for smaller fields? 09:57 < OliverOffing> "If you're reading the Satoshi client code (BitcoinQT) it refers to this encoding as a "CompactSize". Modern Bitcoin Core also has the VARINT macro which implements an even more compact integer for the purpose of local storage (which is incompatible with "CompactSize" described here). VARINT is not a part of the protocol." 09:57 < glozow> i.e. while you want to be able to encode large numbers, in the vast majority of cases you only need 1 byte to encode size 09:57 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> sorry i think i lost the plot 09:57 < sipa> So the Bitcoin P2P protocol only has one variable-length integer serialization format, namely the "compactsize" one. 09:57 < btckid> thanks 09:57 < glozow> thanks sipa 09:57 < sipa> But Bitcoin Core internally has another, more complex but slightly smaller one, which is used in its UTXO set database serialization. 09:58 < sipa> The latter is called VarInt in the codebase. 09:58 < sipa> But CompactSize is also "a" varint format, and is often referred to as such. 09:58 < sipa> (I introduced the second one, so blame me for the confusion) 09:58 < glozow> understood. so we should try not to use varint when talking about the p2p compact size data type, so we don't get confused 09:59 < btckid> agree 09:59 < glozow> let's try to squeeze in one more question: How does the FillInputToWeight() function fill an input to the target weight? Why does it care when the weight to add is between 253 and 263? 10:00 < sipa> Also, originally CompactSize was only used for the length of vectors or other things, not as a generic number encoding. The BIP152 compact block encoding however started using the compactsize encode for non-length things. 10:00 < sipa> (don't let me interrupt you) 10:01 < larryruane> I think that history is extremely useful, thanks sipa 10:01 < glozow> +1, thanks sipa 10:01 < glozow> okay we're out of time, but i wanted to throw in that last question because the CompactSize talk was setup for it 10:01 < glozow> thanks for coming everyone :) happy reviewing 10:01 < glozow> #endmeeting 10:01 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> thank you so much. 10:01 < btckid> thanks 10:02 < ziggie> thank you 10:02 < svav> Thanks all 10:02 < larryruane> thanks glozow and all! 10:02 < OliverOffing> thanks glozow and thanks all 10:02 < tarun> thank you. 10:02 < Kaizen_Kintsugi_> Thanks glowzow! 10:02 -!- OliverOffing [~OliverOff@189.1.174.52] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:02 < Kaizen_Kintsugi_> and everyone else, I learned a lot again today 10:03 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> if anyone wants a study-buddy, i'm trying to put in hours everyday. you can dm on twitter 10:03 -!- tarun [tarun@gateway/vpn/protonvpn/tarun] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:03 < bitcoin_pleb_pau> https://twitter.com/Bitcoinplebb 10:03 -!- g99 [~g@c-73-170-54-249.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:03 < michaelfolkson> Thanks glozow! 10:05 -!- svav [~svav@82-69-86-143.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed] 10:06 < kouloumos> thanks for this! and it's appreciated that notes and questions for future meetings have started going online sooner, it really helps 10:07 < docallag> ty 10:11 < michaelfolkson> I added more explanation to the issue. 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