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09:00 < stickies-v> #startmeeting
09:00 < pablomartin> hello!
09:00 < stickies-v> hi everyone!
09:00 < LarryRuane> hi
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09:00 < theStack> hi
09:00 < hernanmarino> hi !
09:01 < hebasto> hi (my mobile connection is quite poor though)
09:01 < stickies-v> today we're looking at a refactoring PR authored by hebasto, the notes are available at https://bitcoincore.reviews/23897
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09:01 < stickies-v> thank you for joining us hebasto!
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09:01 < _andrewtoth_> hi
09:01 < stickies-v> do we have any newcomers today? feel free to just say hi and lurk around or participate as per your preference
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09:03 < stickies-v> regulars only today it seems, also fun. if you drop in late, don't be shy to say hi!
09:04 < stickies-v> who was able to have a look at the notes and/or the PR (y/n)?
09:04 < LarryRuane> y
09:04 < pablomartin> y
09:04 < theStack> n
09:05 < _andrewtoth_> could be because DST changed times for a lot of people
09:05 < hernanmarino> not really, I'm just lurking today. I only read the notes a few minutes ago, but I didn't have time to look at the code or PR 
09:05 < stickies-v> ah yes, DST fun never gets old
09:06 < stickies-v> if you did review, would you give it a Concept ACK, approach ACK, tested ACK, or NACK?
09:06 < LarryRuane> _andrewtoth_: good point, we could have a bunch of people showing up in about an hour from now!
09:07 < LarryRuane> ACK on all (I'll review the actual PR later today), this is a nice PR!
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09:08 < stickies-v> I agree with that sentiment LarryRuane ! a nice improvement in maintainability
09:08 < stickies-v> alright, moving on to the questions
09:08 < pablomartin> concept ack, havent had the chance to review the code much
09:08 < stickies-v> What is prevheights, and why do we need to calculate it?
09:08 < stickies-v> (link: https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/blob/ed2d714bd1130291a2f781e644f787d421cdf26e/src/validation.cpp#L193)
09:09 < LarryRuane> There's a fair amount of code that moved, and there's a type of git diff that shows that (`--colorMoved` and `--colorMovedWs` i believe), that helps simplify the diff
09:10 < stickies-v> good point, I should have included that in the notes actually - thanks for the suggestion!
09:10 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: For a given transaction, it's the per-input height of the block that contains the output that this input is attempting to spend
09:11 < stickies-v> LarryRuane that sums it up perfectly
09:11 < LarryRuane> I think we need to calculate it to know if the timelock (if any) for each tx input has been satisfied
09:13 < stickies-v> exactly - the point of BIP68 relative timelocks is that they are relative to a previous transaction (being included in a block)
09:13 < LarryRuane> So if that prevheight (for a particular input) is a low number, then the difference between that height and the current height would be a large number (many blocks ago), then perhaps the timelock has been satisfied (depending on the value of the timelock, obviously)
09:14 < LarryRuane> but if prevheight is recent, then the timelock may not be satisfied yet
09:14 < stickies-v> does anyone know where we store relative timelocks?
09:15 < stickies-v> (store as in: where are they defined)
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09:15 < stickies-v> (as in: which field)
09:15 < hebasto> also prevheight can be changed after reorg
09:16 < LarryRuane> each tx input has an `nSequence` field (4 bytes), and it's stored there, I think? that field is often 0xffffffff (no timelock), but otherwise, it is a timelock of some kind
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09:16 < hernanmarino> Larryruane: good suggestion about git diff !
09:17 < theStack> not sure if i understand the question correctly, but isn't the relative timelock part of the locking script (i.e. argument for OP_CSV)?
09:17 < stickies-v> LarryRuane: yes! so... can a single transaction have different `nSequence` values? how do we deal with that?
09:17 < LarryRuane> hebasto: +1 good point, it can either increase or decrease (i think)
09:18 < stickies-v> theStack: OP_CSV is on the script level and only visible upon spending (BIP112)
09:19 < LarryRuane> theStack: yes that's right, it's actually stored in both places! in the output (or technically the locking script), and in nSequence .. I don't really understand why (there have to be both)
09:19 < theStack> oh, that's a different bip
09:19 < stickies-v> nLocktime is to OP_CTLV what nSequence is to OP_CSV - we have script-based and transaction-based timelocks for both relative and absolute timelcks
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09:21 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: "can a single transaction have different `nSequence` values?" -- yes, I think the timelocks for ALL inputs must be satisfied, or else the tx isn't "finalized" yet (able to accept to mempool and relayed)
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09:22 < theStack> stickies-v, LarryRuane: thanks
09:23 < stickies-v> LarryRuane: glad you mention it, because it's a very common source of confusion. for relative timelocks, you don't NEED to use OP_CSV. you can just use nSequence without any kind of script level locking, if you only want the transaction to be spendable when the transactions parents have enough ancestors
09:24 < stickies-v> however, OP_CSV allows you to (relatively) timelock _outputs_ (without showing that to the world until they're spent) instead of transactions
09:24 < LarryRuane> I did have a question about different inputs (nSequence) having different timelocks ... let's say the timelock is satisfied for one input but not another ... could the sender then steal back that output (spend it back to himself)?
09:24 < stickies-v> but interestingly, the validation of OP_CSV relies on the nSequence fields: the transaction _spending_ and OP_CSV output needs to set its nSequence field (on that input) sufficiently high so it satisfies the OP_CSV script pending path
09:26 < stickies-v> mmm I'm not sure I understand your question. nSequence is on the transaction level, OP_CSV is on the output/script level
09:27 < stickies-v> and re multiple `nSequence` values: indeed, a transaction can have a different `nSequence` value for each of its inputs, and _all_of them need to be satisfied in order for the transaction to be final
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09:27 < LarryRuane> We can go on :) ... if I figure out if my question makes sense (i'm probably just confused), i'll bring it up later if there's time
09:27 < stickies-v> yes! next question:
09:27 < stickies-v> What is the difference between CalculateSequenceLocks and CalculateLockPointsAtTip?
09:28 < stickies-v> (links: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/50422b770a40f5fa964201d1e99fd6b5dc1653ca/src/consensus/tx_verify.cpp#L39 and https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/blob/ed2d714bd1130291a2f781e644f787d421cdf26e/src/validation.cpp#L179-L181)
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09:28 < theStack> so IIUC now, you can either only use relative transaction-based timelocks with nSequence fields (bip 68), OR relative script-based timelocks using OP_CSV, but then the transaction-based timelocks also have to match (bip68+bip112)... but not bip112 alone
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09:29 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: CalculateSequenceLocks() looks across inputs and prevheights, figures out the earliest (min) height and time (that the tip has to reach) so that this tx is finalized (timelocks satisfied), could be in the future or the past
09:29 < stickies-v> theStack: no you can combine them. Look at it this way: nSequence limits when the transaction itself becomes final, OP_CSV limits when the transaction *spending it* can become final
09:31 < LarryRuane> CalculateLockPointsAtTip() creates and populates the prevheights list, each entry is the height that the output was mined that this input wants to spend, Then it passes this to CalculateSequenceLocks() ... so CalculateLockPointsAtTip is a higher-level function that uses CalculateSequenceLocks
09:31 < theStack> stickies-v: gotcha
09:32 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: "no you can combine them" -- thanks, that's very helpful!
09:32 < stickies-v> LarryRuane: yes exactly, `CalculateLockPointsAtTip` is just a wrapper that first calculates the `prevheights`, and then after passing that to `CalculateSequenceLocks` also calculates the `max_input_height` (which we'll discuss in a bit)
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09:33 < stickies-v> (imo: all of this would be much more readable if we'd start writing smaller functions with narrower scope)
09:34 < stickies-v> `CalculateLockPointsAtTip` returns a `std::optional<LockPoints>`. Under which circumstance(s) will this be a `std::nullopt`? Do you see any alternative approaches?
09:34 < stickies-v> (link: https://github.com/hebasto/bitcoin/blob/ed2d714bd1130291a2f781e644f787d421cdf26e/src/validation.cpp#L179-L181)
09:34 < LarryRuane> Yes I agree, this PR makes all this code more understandable, but it still seems pretty messy, as in, if you were writing all this from scratch today, it could be a lot simpler (but you never know until you try) ... but such a rewrite would be very hard to get merged (understandably so, easy to break things)
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09:35 < stickies-v> to be clear: with my last "imo..." comment I meant this code in general, not this PR (which is indeed moving in the right direction!)
09:36 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: if I'm reading the code correctly, std::nullopt only if one of the transaction inputs refers to an output that can't be found in the coins database (UTXO set).
09:36 < stickies-v> yes! does the coins database include only unconfirmed or confirmed UTXOs, or both?
09:36 < LarryRuane> but I was a little surprised by this, because wouldn't this be checked elsewhere already (where timelocks aren't being used at all, every input must refer to a UTXO)
09:37 < stickies-v> (hint: look at who calls CalculateLockPointsAtTip, not how the function is implemented)
09:38 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: I think you can get different kind of utxo views? Like, include mempool or not, as you wish? I've always been somewhat confused about that
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09:42 < LarryRuane> I think at both CalculateLockPointsAtTip callers, the mempool view does include unconfirmed utxos
09:42 < stickies-v> yeah exactly, it just takes a `CCoinsView` - however, it seems that in all callsites it's passed with a view that contains both unconfirmed and confirmed UTXOs
09:43 < stickies-v> it seems, however, that we never actually expect `GetCoin` to fail
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09:44 < stickies-v> so... is using an `std::optional` appropriate?
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09:46 < LarryRuane> there's some fancy class-derivation going on with these different views! for example https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/txmempool.h#L915
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09:47 < stickies-v> yeah, and also e.g. here (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/9dce30194bc07463d634072251a8bf83e1b10ff9/src/validation.cpp#L746) where we start with a `CCoinsViewCache` but then chuck the mempool in there anyway
09:48 < LarryRuane> Hmm if `GetCoin` can never fail, then I guess the `std::optional` isn't needed ... maybe it's still a good future-proof measure?
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09:49 < stickies-v> I think it definitely can fail if we're passing it the wrong `CCoinsView`. However, if we're not expecting it to happen, shouldn't we just assert (or `Assume`) that to happen instead of just logging an error and move on? These silent failures always worry me. And perhaps making the return type unnecessarily convoluted
09:49 < stickies-v> But, there is probably some nuance I'm missing
09:50 < stickies-v> I'll move on the next question already:
09:50 < stickies-v> What’s the point of having `LockPoints::maxInputBlock` when we already have `LockPoints::height`?
09:51 < LarryRuane> is Assume a no-op in a non-debug build?
09:51 < stickies-v> yep, it's like `Assert` but it'll only fail in debug builds
09:51 < stickies-v> (no-op in non-debug, like you say)
09:52 < LarryRuane> thanks.. one thing I think keeps many of us awake at night is, what if some tx or block relay or whatever causes every node in the world to `assert` (just a few is okay, but all???)
09:54 < stickies-v> yeah, that would be a nightmare
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09:54 < LarryRuane> stickies-v: "What’s the point of having `LockPoints::maxInputBlock" -- @hebasto referred to this earlier, reorgs!
09:55 < LarryRuane> If a reorg occurs, the block referred to by `maxInputBlock` may no longer be part of the best chain, whereas a block of any given height often will still exist.
09:55 < LarryRuane> I think the idea is, when we accept a tx into the mempool (it passes its timelock check), we also cache its `LockPoints`, so then later, if there's a reorg, we don't have to re-check the timelocks if the `LockPoints` is still valid (performance improvement only, i think?)
09:57 < stickies-v> "performance improvement only, i think?" yes exactly! when reorging, we only need to invalidate those `LockPoints` that have a `maxInputBlock` that is higher than how deep the reorg is
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09:58 < stickies-v> because relative timelocks always refer to when a previous transaction was confirmed, and a reorg can change when a transaction was confirmed (or even make it unconfirmed)
09:58 < stickies-v> alright last question before wrapping up:
09:58 < LarryRuane> is a tx's `LockPoints` stored with the tx in the mempool? (I didn't look into it closely enough to know)
09:59 < stickies-v> oh good question, I'm not actually sure
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10:00 < stickies-v> mm actually not enough time left for the final questions, so let's wrap it up here
10:00 < stickies-v> #endmeeting
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10:00 < stickies-v> thank you for attending, hope it was helpful!
10:00 < LarryRuane> thanks stickies-v: great discussion! Thanks for the PR, @hebasto, I learned a lot from it!
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--- Log closed Thu Nov 10 00:00:13 2022