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03:47 < darosior> FWIW i was suggested to host a PR review club on TapMiniscript above, but i decided not to do it in the end. If anyone else is interested in this PR and want to host i am happy to help preparing but would likely not be able to make it to the meeting.
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06:55 < josie> darosior: I'd be interested in hosting if no one else wants it. I'm already reviewing the PR for our BitDevs meeting, but would certainly take you up on the offer to help with the prep questions
07:10 < instagibbs> would be great to have it
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08:29 < darosior> josie: sgtm, maybe sync up with stickies-v i think he was interested too
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08:44 < stickies-v> all yours josie!
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09:16 < josie> done! https://bitcoincore.reviews/27255
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09:23 < darosior> Awesome :)
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10:00 < dergoegge> #startmeeting
10:00 < glozow> hi
10:00 < DaveBeer> hi
10:00 < emzy> hi
10:00 < effexzi> Hi every1
10:00 < abubakar> Hello
10:00 < brunoerg> hi
10:00 < lightlike> hello
10:00 < dergoegge> Hi everyone, welcome to this week's review club!
10:01 < dergoegge> Feel free to say to let people know you are here :)
10:01 < dergoegge> Anyone here for the first time?
10:01 < fanquake> hi
10:01 < LarryRuane> hi
10:02 < glozow> it's fanquake's first time
10:02 < schmidty> hi
10:02 < dergoegge> welcome fanquake!
10:02 < pakaro> hi
10:02 < vicodark> first timer here
10:02 < glozow> welcome vicodark!
10:02 < fanquake> yea thanks very new here
10:02 < vicodark> thanks!
10:03 < dergoegge> This week we are looking at "Don't download witnesses for assumed-valid blocks when running in prune mode" #27050
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10:03 < dergoegge> Notes and questions are in the usual place: https://bitcoincore.reviews/27050
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10:05 < dergoegge> Ok lets get started: Who had a chance to look at the notes this week? (y/n)
10:05 < previewer> y
10:05 < DaveBeer> y
10:05 < abubakar> Yes
10:05 < pakaro> y
10:05 < emzy> n
10:06 < brunoerg> y
10:06 < pakaro> concept clarification - if prune=0 & and av=1 we still need the witness data because eventually the witness-validity will be checked, perhaps once the node has  caught up entirely?
10:06 < hernanmarino> Hi !
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10:07 < Amirreza> Hi
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10:07 < glozow> pakaro: no, the witnesses are never checked. they may be useful if another node requests the block from us, though
10:07 < LarryRuane> pakaro: I think we need to download the witness data in that case so we're able to serve blocks to peers
10:08 < dergoegge> pakaro: if prune=0 and av=1, then witness validation is skipped under assume-valid for each block and not validated later on
10:08 < dergoegge> glozow: +1
10:08 < pakaro> ahh thanks glozow larryruane dergoegge
10:08 < _aj_> pakaro: or the node operator might run -reindex with -noassumevalid, or they might lookup a post-segwit tx via getrawtransaction and want to see the witness data
10:09 < dergoegge> Next question: Did you review the PR? Concept ACK, approach ACK, tested ACK, or NACK? What was your review approach?
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10:09 < LarryRuane> concept ACK
10:10 < Amirreza> Is assumed-valid by default 256?  
10:10 < abubakar> Concept Ack
10:10 < pakaro> good point _aj_
10:11 < DaveBeer> yes, read through notes and concerns raised in PR's conversation, haven't made decision regarding ACK
10:11 < brunoerg> Concept ACK
10:11 < abubakar> I’ve read the PR and tested it on signet network
10:12 < dergoegge> amirreza: the default value for assume valid can be found here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fc7c21f664fd24ac17f518d07f04e0a3d9f8681c/src/kernel/chainparams.cpp#L107
10:12 < dergoegge> and it is updated before every major release
10:14 < Amirreza> So, when we run the bitcoind, it does not necessarily validate blocks from the genesis?
10:14 < dergoegge> The next question involved a little bit of homework/prep-work so i am curious to see who did it :)
10:14 < dergoegge> How much bandwidth is saved, i.e., what is the cumulative size of all witness data up to block 0000000000000000000013a20dcc8577282e1eabd430592bb8afdd5fe544c05a? 
10:15 < previewer> I'm gonna cheat, 46% of the whole is saved?
10:15 < dergoegge> amirreza: we only skip script validation, all other checks are still done for all blocks
10:16 < dergoegge> previewer: how did you get to that number?
10:16 < previewer> i read peter todds comment
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10:16 < hernanmarino> :)
10:17 < glozow> you mean from https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27050#issuecomment-1419611954? I don't see a 46
10:17 < dergoegge> so peter got that number from pieters comment (https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27050#issuecomment-1419611954)
10:17 < abubakar1> I ran test on signet network up  the bandwidth saved by not downloading
10:17 < abubakar1>    witness data to a certain block.
10:17 < abubakar1>    There will be 47% bandwidth to be  saved equivalent  to 294232577 kb of data 
10:18 < abubakar1> to the tip of the chain
10:18 < dergoegge> but pieter was talking about the last 100k blocks not all blocks
10:18 < previewer> oops, he said  "43% savings."
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10:18 < LarryRuane> "what is the cumulative size of all witness data" -- this is slow but should work, but it goes to the chain tip rather than that specific block: https://gist.github.com/LarryRuane/2c52467afe0090432a2a0ed592054d72
10:19 < Amirreza> dergoegge: What checks exist beside the validation? (The checks I can guess are, checking for dust-tx and timestamp)
10:19 < sipa> I don't remember how I computed it.
10:19 < pakaro> abubakar1 I reached that ballpark number ->  250kB savings per block multiplied by ~750,000 blocks 
10:19 < dergoegge> LarryRuane: cool! did you run it? I think the number at the tip should be close to the block hash in the question :)
10:20 < LarryRuane> it's running right now but probably will take longer than the rest of this meeting.. but i'll post the result (even after the meeting)
10:20 < abubakar1> :)
10:20 < _aj_> segwit only activated at block 481824, so multiply by 300k blocks at most?
10:20 < lightlike> pakaro: there are no savings for pre-segwit blocks, segwit was only activate at height ~480k
10:21 < dergoegge> amirreza: i can't list them all but  to name a few: making sure inputs exist in the utxo set, checking the proof of work, inflation checks, ...
10:21 < ottosch> Amirreza: format, outputs <= inputs, coin maturity etc
10:22 < dergoegge> Ok does anybody have a guess in GB? otherwise i can post the result now or at the end
10:22 < _aj_> dust is a relay/standardness rule, not a consensus one, so isn't checked for blocks
10:22 < Amirreza> dergoegge, ottosch : thanks, where can I find them in the codebase? Are they all in a single place?
10:23 < dergoegge> amirreza: a lot of them can be found in `src/validation.cpp`
10:24 < abubakar1> larryRuane: took 18 minutes to complete for me, so yeah can take a while.
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10:24 < dergoegge> So my answer to the question is 110.6 GB by the way :)
10:25 < dergoegge> The end goal of the PR can be achieved with very few changes to the code (ignoring edge case scenarios). It essentially only requires two changes, one to the block request logic and one to block validation. Can you (in your own words) describe these two changes in more detail?
10:26 < ottosch> Amirreza: src/consensus/tx_verify.cpp too
10:26 < LarryRuane> that's very significant! that's about 10% of my monthly cable (comcast/xfinity) limit (which i think is 1.2TB)
10:27 < dergoegge> Yea I think shaving off a ~100GB of IBD is quite a nice win
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10:27 < dergoegge> (and with the recent jpeg hype that number will probably grow)
10:28 < lightlike> If pruning and block is assumed valid: 1) In SendMessages, remove MSG_WITNESS_FLAG from fetch flags so our peers don't send us the witness data. 2)In validation, skip witness merkle tree checks because we don't have the witness.
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10:30 < dergoegge> lightlike: yes that is correct, currently those changes are in these two commits: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27050/commits/7aafe8ab5118205ce783ff232535562aa26afae4, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27050/commits/282b58ab331cf94ae4d92ef27f6e69bfc40548a9
10:31 < dergoegge> i was a bit surprised that it's this easy (ignoring edge cases)
10:32 < dergoegge> Without this PR, script validation is skipped under assume-valid, but other checks that involve witness data are not skipped. What other witness related checks exist as part of validation on master?
10:34 < LarryRuane> lightlike's point 2 above?
10:34 < LarryRuane> (Coinbase merkle root check)
10:35 < dergoegge> yes that's one
10:35 < ottosch> witnesses size and amount?
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10:37 < dergoegge> ottosch: yes on witness sizes, what do you mean by amount? 
10:37 < ottosch> max stack items
10:38 < dergoegge> ottosch: +1
10:38 < dergoegge> I would also count the block weight check as a witness size check: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fc7c21f664fd24ac17f518d07f04e0a3d9f8681c/src/validation.cpp#L3744-L3752
10:40 < dergoegge> What about blocks that don't commit to witness data, should they be allowed to have witnesses?
10:42 < pakaro> dergoegge i.e. a block that only have pre-segwit transactions in them?
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10:43 < dergoegge> yea what if someone attaches witnesses to a pre-segwit block?
10:44 < dergoegge> (that is attach them to transactions in the block, not the block itself)
10:45 < dergoegge> I am referring to this rule: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fc7c21f664fd24ac17f518d07f04e0a3d9f8681c/src/validation.cpp#L3735-L3742
10:46 < dergoegge> "No witness data is allowed in blocks that don't commit to witness data, as this would otherwise leave room for spam"
10:47 < pakaro> is there a separate check to ensure that there is no witness data in 1'ordinary' transactions and 2'coinbase' transactions, or does one check suffice?
10:48 < pakaro> in my understanding a coinbase tx is very similar to a normal tx, really just with nblocktime spending rules , nvalue, etc, so one check should suffice?
10:48 < dergoegge> pakaro: the check i linked checks all transactions at once i.e. no extra check for coinbases
10:48 < DaveBeer> do witness data have any size limit at all?
10:49 < abubakar1> DaveBeer: yes there are policy rules on witness data size
10:49 < pakaro> thx dergoegge [i'm still not great at c++]
10:50 < dergoegge> DaveBeer there are also consensus rules on the size
10:50 < glozow> policy rules don't apply here
10:51 < dergoegge> The maximum block weight being one of them: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/fc7c21f664fd24ac17f518d07f04e0a3d9f8681c/src/validation.cpp#L3750
10:51 < dergoegge> iirc there are also limits on individual witnesses but I am not sure on the specifics
10:52 < DaveBeer> right, you have already linked that check before, thanks dergoegge
10:53 < dergoegge> The PR does not include an explicit code change for skipping all witness related checks. It only explicitly skips the witness merkle root check.  Why does that work out?
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10:55 < pakaro> dergoegge I dont think there are individual limits because there was that jpg-wizard spend and that file was 4MB, therefore unless the limit was the same was block weight, which would render the rule meaningless anyway
10:55 < abubakar1> I think without the witness data, there will be no checks to do
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10:56 < dergoegge> pakaro: indeed but there are different segwit version which have slightly different rules *i think*
10:56 < dergoegge> iirc taproot (segwit v1) removed the individual limits
10:57 < dergoegge> It turns out that all the extra checks *just* pass when you don't have any witnesses. Which makes sense considering that segwit was a soft-fork. With the PR, we are essentially just pretending like we are a pre-segwit node (up to the assume-valid point).
10:59 < abubakar1> +1 makes sense legacy outputs don't have witness data and it passes
10:59 < dergoegge> I don't think we have time for the last question unfortunately. Feel free to stick around and ask more questions!
10:59 < dergoegge> Thank you all for coming!
10:59 < dergoegge> #endmeeting
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11:00 < pakaro> dergoegge thanks, thanks everyone 
11:00 < DaveBeer> thanks dergoegge
11:00 < lightlike> thanks dergoegge 
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11:00 < abubakar1> thanks dergoegge
11:00 < previewer> thank you for hosting
11:00 < LarryRuane> Thanks @deggoegge and everyone!
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11:02 < effexzi> Thanks every1
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11:05 < emzy> Thanks everyone
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