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10:00 < josie> #startmeeting
10:00 < josie> hi!
10:02 < kevkevin> hi
10:02 < josie> planning to review https://bitcoincore.reviews/27255-2 , which is a follow up to last weeks PR review club: https://bitcoincore.reviews/27255
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10:03 < josie> although, it's awfully quiet in here...
10:03 < abubakr> hi
10:03 < glozow> hi
10:04 -!- abubakr is now known as abubakar
10:05 < brunoerg> hi
10:05 < josie> i recognize most of the names from last time, but I'll ask any way: did everyone here get a chance to attend part 1?
10:05 < josie> and if so, have you had a chance to review the questions for part 2?
10:06 < abubakar> yes
10:06 < kevkevin> yup was in part 1 didnt get too much of a chance to look at part 2's questions
10:08 < LarryRuane> Hi
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10:09 < josie> cool, let's start with question 2: In Miniscript, we have type modifiers, which guarantee additional properties for an expression. commit 866284d makes the wrapper “d:” have the “u” property under Tapscript
10:10 < josie> first off, what are the "d:" wrapper and "u" fragment?
10:11 < abubakar> from miniscript website "d" is a dissatisfiable: does not include a signature or a hash preimage cannot rely on timelocks for being satisfied 
10:12 < stickies-v> hi
10:12 < abubakar> "u" when satisfied the expression will have 1 on the stack
10:13 < josie> also - I typed that incorrectly: that should be "what is the 'u' type modifier"
10:13 < stickies-v> abubakar: perhaps confusingly, there's a difference between `d` the property and `d:` the wrapper
10:13 < stickies-v> as in - they're entirely unrelated
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10:14 < abubakar> stickies-v: ohthanks
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10:15 < josie> abubakar: I made the same mistake when writing the questions! it is confusingly named
10:15 < stickies-v> properties/type modifiers describe attributes of fragments (expressions), e.g. the `z` property says that a fragment with that property always consumes exactly 0 stack elements
10:15 < stickies-v> wrappers however take a fragment and add some script before/after it
10:16 < josie> stickies-v: that's a great explanation on the difference between wrappers and type modifiers, thanks!
10:17 < stickies-v> the `d:X` wrapper takes fragment X, and adds `DUP IF` before and `ENDIF` after the fragment, so you end up with `DUP IF [X] ENDIF`
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10:19 < abubakar> stickies-v: thanks
10:19 < josie> what about the type modifier, "u"?
10:20 < stickies-v> fragments with type modifier `u` always put `1` on the stack when satisfied
10:20 < abubakar> i think its the one I reffered to earlier
10:20 < stickies-v> ah yes exactly you did!
10:21 < josie> abubakar: sorry, i missed this, but yes! when satisfied, expressions with the u property leave exactly 1 on the stack
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10:22 < josie> so leading into the second part: why is okay for us to say the d:X fragment has the u property under tapscript?
10:22 < abubakar> It is called unit because of the 1 it leaves right?
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10:23 < josie> abubakar: that's how I understood it: unit as in exactly 1
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10:25 < abubakar> josie: okay
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10:26 < stickies-v> before taproot, OP_IF would evaluate to true for any value > 0, whereas in taproot we require the argument to be either 0/1. Which means that in case of true, the argument is definitely 1. Because the `d:` wrapper duplicates the argument (OP_DUP), we can state that in case of satisfaction this fragment will put 1 on the stack
10:27 < josie> stickies-v: "OP_IF would evaluate true for any value > 0" .. was this true for _any_ transaction?
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10:29 < stickies-v> hmmmm, i thought so but it sounds like i'm missing something?
10:30 < josie> perhaps a better way to phrase my question: was there anything pre-tapscript that would have prevented "regular" users from constructing transactions that used this OP_IF behavior? 
10:31 < instagibbs> MINIMALIF was a standardness check for p2wsh iirc
10:32 < josie> instagibbs: bingo! the main problem here is miners are not bound by standardness, only validity 
10:33 < josie> I don't have a link to it, but darosier has shown some nasty examples where miners could exploit this to steal funds in scripts that use thresholds
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10:34 < josie> so if people remember from last week, MINIMALIF was added as a consensus rule in tapscript, which means it is now safe to say that d:X fragments can have the u property
10:34 < josie> moving on to question 3: "This PR adds some logic for statically ensuring no spending path exceeds the stack size at execution time"
10:35 < josie> why does this matter for tapscript?
10:36 < kevkevin> didn't CHECKMULTISIG have a limit of 20, and CHECKSIGADD removed that limit so now we're bound by the stack size limit, not sure if I'm remembering correctly
10:37 < instagibbs> miniscript does more than 20 signatures fine I think. BIP342 introduces "It is extended to also apply to the size of initial stack" which means it can't exceed limits ever and succeed. Not sure that answers it
10:37 < instagibbs> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0342.mediawiki#resource-limits
10:37 < abubakar> because someone might use a script that add elements that are larger than stack size, standarness were lifted
10:39 < stickies-v> miniscript also checks if a script is sane, which (amongst others) also means that it is consensus valid and standard - this helps a lot with analysis of scripts. for example, you may not care about the entire script, just that you have a certain spending path to which you control the keys. but if it then turns out that that spending path is actually not spendable (because of stack size limit), that's a problem
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10:39 < josie> kevkevin: CHECKMULTISIG did have a limit, but I think its more correct to say CHECKMULTISIG was disabled in tapscript and CHECKSIGADD was added, and CHECKSIGADD doesn't have a limit (aside from the stack size limit)
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10:41 < kevkevin> josie: ok ya that makes more sense, thanks
10:41 < josie> stickies-v: great point re: miniscript. I think tapscript's decision to remove some of the "arbitrary" limits from before makes being able to reason about sanity much more straightforward 
10:43 < josie> moving on the the second part of the question: "What’s the approach taken by this PR? What are the pros/cons?"
10:44 < josie> by approach, we are referring to how this PR ensures no spending path exceeds the stack size limit at execution time
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10:50 < josie> for this one, the commit message is pretty helpful
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10:53 < josie> haha the silence is pretty deafening on this one (which admittedly is a pretty in the weeds question), so lets finish with the last question about descriptors
10:53 < josie> What is the most significant change to the descriptor logic in this PR?
10:54 < stickies-v> sorry josie I didn't review this far ahead so just looking at the commit now - if you wouldn't mind summarizing your answer i'd appreciate that?
10:54 < stickies-v> on the approach and pros/cons
10:58 < josie> sure! basically, it tracks how the stack will be affected after the script executes, and also how many items will be pushed on the stack during execution. the second part is the part I don't fully understand, but it also checks the maximum witness size for a fragment and takes the lesser. regarding pros and cons, it mentions this being a conservative approach because the max
10:58 < josie> witness might not always happen along with the max stack size
10:59 < stickies-v> i think we also distinguish between satisfactions and dissatisfactions, right?
10:59 < josie> as a con, you could say since this is a conservative approximation, which might not let you do a script that you would otherwise be able to do with more precise accounting 
11:00 < josie> stickies-v: I believe so, but this where my knowledge of script execution gets fuzzy 
11:01 < josie> we'll stop here. thanks everyone for attending part 2! this is a really dense topic so I appreciate everyone muscling through
11:01 < josie> #endmeeting
11:01 < abubakar> josie: key serializes to x only public key
11:01 < abubakar> thanks josie for hosting
11:02 < josie> if you have made it this far, take a chance to review and test the PR! would love to see this get merged
11:02 < stickies-v> and thanks for hosting josie! definitely a tougher topic 🥵
11:03 < kevkevin> thanks for hosting josie!!
11:03 < josie> yeah, I think the toughest part is this PR requires a lot of background knowledge and a solid grasp of how bitcoin script works. challenging, but rewarding! thanks everyone for attending 
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13:58 < sipa> @josie kevkevin Arguably, CHECKMULTISIG has no more or no less a limit (20) than CHECKSIGADD has a limit (1).
13:59 < sipa> The point is that multi maps to just one CHECKMULTISIG, and thus inherits the 20 limit.
13:59 < sipa> While multi_a maps to many CHECKSIGADD opcodes, so it is not bound to its 1 limit.
14:00 < sipa> We could arguably define a multi() fragment that intelligently maps to multiple CHECKMULTISIG opcodes, and that wouldn't be bound by the 20 limit either, but that's just hiding a lot of complexity that can equally well be captured at a higher level (forcing the miniscript to combine multiple multi() fragments explicitly).
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15:20 < jonatack> gd
15:20 < jonatack> oops ("gd" is my git diff alias)
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--- Log closed Thu Apr 13 00:00:31 2023