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10:00 < josie> #startmeeting
10:00 < josie> hi, and welcome back to round 2!
10:00 < abubakarsadiq> hi
10:00 < brunoerg> hi
10:00 < emjshrx> hi!
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10:00 < josie> we are continuing our discussion of #28122 (notes here: https://bitcoincore.reviews/28122)
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10:02 < josie> before we jump in with question 5, does anyone have any questions or comments related to the discussion yesterday?
10:02 < glozow> hi
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10:04 < josie> let's jump in! question 5 pertains to these commits: https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/ae6019b3a5f99e63b5f23e48fd430147b8500877 and https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/439e57aa88d33e9c61e4c38a37526133a79ab188
10:05 < josie> these commits add functions for decoding and encoding a silent payment address. why can't we just reuse the existing encoder and decoder functions and add silent payments as a new `CTxDestination`?
10:06 < josie> maybe as a start, can someone summarize what a `CTxDestination` is?
10:06 < abubakarsadiq> txout script template, basically represent a scriptPubKey
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10:09 < josie> abubakarsadiq: yep! it's a std::variant which holds all of the standard scriptPubKey types 
10:09 < josie> why not just add the silent payments address here as a new destination?
10:09 < abubakarsadiq> I think because silent payment payment address is the same as `WitnessV1Taproot` output type?
10:10 < emjshrx> SP addresess are longer since they have both scan and spend keys, so we need a new decode fn?
10:11 < josie> abubakarsadiq: well, the silent payments protocol dictates that the outputs need to be `WitnessV1Taproot`, but that's different than the silent payment address itself 
10:11 < abubakarsadiq> yes we have to modify the decode and encode  to support silentpayment addresses
10:12 < josie> emjshrx: it is longer, yes. in the payload, it contains two pubkeys. but we could easily handle this in the existing Encoder and Decoder functions. any ideas as to why we are writing new functions just for a silent payment address?
10:12 < vostrnad> Because a silent payment address doesn't actually encode a specific output script?
10:13 < josie> vostrnad: correct! a silent payment address is not a scriptPubKey. it's more like.. instructions on how to create scriptPubKeys
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10:15 < abubakarsadiq> instructions on how to create scriptPubKey can you elaborate on that?
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10:16 < vostrnad> abubakarsadiq: The silent payment address encodes the public keys needed to derive the actual output script, which is also dependent on the inputs of your transaction, so the output script is different every time.
10:16 < emjshrx> ah yes, got it now
10:17 < josie> yep! instead of giving you a scriptPubKey to send to (which is what a traditional address does), a silent payment address gives you pubkeys to do ECDH with, and then the protocol dictates how to turn that shared secret into a scriptPubKey for the receiver 
10:18 < josie> on the subject of address, let's go to question 6: BIP352 talks about versioning and forward compatibility. why is forward compatibility important?
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10:19 < josie> do you see any issues in how the PR is currently written with respect to forward compatibility?
10:19 < emjshrx> so that future nodes dont have to rescan the blockchain?
10:20 < josie> emjshrx: not quite, this is more about just interpreting the address itself
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10:21 < josie> so if I give you a string of characters, encoded in bech32m, how do you know what to do with it?
10:21 < josie> maybe lets take a step back: can someone explain what forward compatibility means in this context?
10:21 < emjshrx> by its metadata
10:23 < abubakarsadiq> forward compatible means silentpayments version 0 interprets silentpayments version 1 addresses 
10:23 < abubakarsadiq> in this context
10:24 < josie> abubakarsadiq: can you explain what you mean by "interprets" a silent payments v1 address?
10:25 < josie> (also, as a hint, the relevant code is in this commit: https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/ae6019b3a5f99e63b5f23e48fd430147b8500877)
10:25 < emjshrx> a v1 SP address should also be a valid v0 SP address?
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10:25 < vostrnad> Forward compatibility in this context means that wallets that only implement Silent Payments v0 can still send to future SP version addresses. (I'm still a bit unsure what kinds of changes could be useful to add to new versions without breaking compatibility with v0.)
10:26 < josie> vostrnad: exactly. if I am a v0 wallet, and someone gives me a v1, v2, v3, etc address, I should still be able to send them a silent payment
10:27 < abubakarsadiq> not sure but I think, means decodes the address from version 1 as a valid silent payment address
10:27 < josie> abubakarsadiq: that's correct! even if someone gives you a newer version, your wallet should be able to decode it and send to it, even if you haven't upgraded 
10:27 < vostrnad> josie: What if a new version wants to intentionally break compatibility? Is that what v31 is for? If so, shouldn't more than one version be allocated for this?
10:28 < Murch> Yeah, I was also wondering about that
10:29 < josie> vostrnad: great question. v31 is reserved for an upgrade which would break compatibility. allocating more "breaking change" versions ahead of time is one approach, but can you think of why its okay to just allocate one?
10:29 < abubakarsadiq> but I  think `DecodeSilentAddress` and `DecodeSilentData` should be `DecodeV0SilentAddress` and `DecodeSilentData` because thats what  they do actually
10:30 < abubakarsadiq> `DecodeV0SilentData`
10:30 < vostrnad> josie: Because we can then add one more byte to be the new version byte?
10:30 < josie> vostrnad: exactly! and we can define new rules for how versions after the breaking change version should be treated
10:32 < josie> abubakarsadiq: its true, that's what they do now, but these same functions could be added to in the future to handle v1 data, v2 data, etc without us needing to create new functions 
10:33 < josie> moving along, in `DecodeSilentAddress` there is a check on the version and data size. can you explain in your own words what's happening here?
10:34 < josie> (also, in a previous question I asked if there were any issues with forward compatibility with the way the PR is currently written. there is ;) and it might be more obvious after looking at `DecodeSilentAddress`)
10:35 < glozow> if it interests anyone, example of adding a new address type to decode/encode within the existing functions: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/20861/commits/da2bb6976dadeec682d163c258c9afecc87d6428
10:35 < Murch> Well, if a new version adds more data to the address, we might need to have a way of getting only the forward compatible parts
10:35 < Murch> e.g. restrict ourselves to parsing the first 66 characters
10:35 < Murch> s/characters/byets/
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10:37 < josie> Murch: definitely! lets say v1 silent payments adds a third pubkey (just for the sake of example). what would happen with how the code is currently written? (hint: look at the change in src/bech32.cpp) 
10:38 < Murch> Is this about extending the limit of what length bech32m addresses we allow?
10:39 < josie> Murch: bingo. right now, it just extends the length to 117. but it should really just remove the limit for a silent payment address (or make it something much higher, like 1023)
10:39 < josie> if we were to add 33 more bytes in a v1 address, a v0 wallet would fail to decode the address if we keep the 117 char limit 
10:40 < josie> also, to your earlier point, we should probably be more explicit and say the first 66 bytes MUST be reserved for the v0 payload
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10:41 < josie> so most of the new silent payments code is in `src/wallet/silentpayments.{h,cpp}`. is this a good place for the code to live? why / why not?
10:41 < josie> can you think of a use case where we would want to use silent payments code outside of a wallet context?
10:43 < vostrnad> In an RPC call maybe? Not sure whether that would be useful for anything.
10:43 < emjshrx> since we need private keys for sending and receiving I see it not being used outside wallets
10:44 < glozow> perhaps for implementing a server that detects sps or computes stuff for on behalf of a lighter sp wallet
10:44 < josie> vostrnad: I actually ran into this working on the receiving PR for silent payments :) some of the RPCs for creating transactions don't need a wallet at all
10:45 < josie> glozow: exactly! one can imagine a use case where a full node indexes the tweak data for transactions and stores it in an index for light clients to query, or serves data via some bip158 like filter
10:45 < josie> for this, you wouldn't even need a wallet compiled with the node 
10:46 < josie> does someone have an argument for why it's best to keep the silent payments code in `src/wallet` ? 
10:48 < glozow> better code organization. unless the intention is for bitcoind to be such a server
10:49 < Guest35> no
10:50 < josie> glozow: yeah, better code organization and much easier to spot code smell. in the original version of the PR, the silent payments code was outside the wallet and was calling functions in the script interpreter during scanning. moving it into the wallet made me rethink some of those boundaries
10:51 < josie> speaking of scanning, the `Recipient` class (https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/2dedccebac504b6f3aea68cea6eb7537a16fd8ea/src/wallet/silentpayments.h) is initialized with two private keys in the PR, the spend and scan key. are both keys necessary for scanning? 
10:52 < josie> can you propose a better implementation? and if so, which functions would you need to re-write? 
10:52 < glozow> ^I'd also expect to not compile sp code if I --disable-wallet, assuming the code is only used for sending/receiving
10:52 < Murch> Well, presumably it would be mostly used in conjuction with your own wallet sending or receiving.
10:53 < Murch> Or with external wallets that have been added as watch-only wallets
10:53 < Murch> It may also be the area where we’d add code to watch a SP wallet for which we only know the scan key
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10:54 < josie> Murch, glozow: definitely. the current use case is most clearly a node scanning for its own wallet. so it wouldn't make sense to compile this code for nodes that explicitly don't want a wallet.
10:55 < josie> in the future, we might lift some of this code out to be available for more general scanning, but it seems better to only lift out what we need at that point 
10:55 < Guest35> 'scan key'?
10:55 < josie> Murch: regarding "for which we only know the scan key," that's almost an answer to question 9 :)
10:57 < josie> Guest35: yep! BIP352 defines a spend key and a scan key. the silent payment output is created in such a way where the output can be found with just the scan key, but can only be spent with the spend key + the scan key
10:58 < Guest35> tnx
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10:58 < josie> we are almost at time and there are still a few questions left, so I'd encourage everyone to go through the remaining questions and leave your feedback on the PR! 
10:59 < Murch> So, you only need the scan key to discover the payments, but you do need the spend key to pay
10:59 < josie> if these review clubs have piqued your interest in silent payments, there's https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/27827
10:59 < glozow> thank you josie :) great review club meetings!
10:59 < Murch> This means that the scan key can be e.g. handed to a trusted server of slightly less secure setup to find the payments, but the sc
10:59 < josie> this PR is a parent PR for the one we are reviewing today, one for sending, and one for receiving
10:59 < Murch> spend key can be kept more secure
11:00 < josie> Murch: exactly! by separating the keys, you can delegate scanning to a "hot" device
11:00 < Murch> I was pondering a bit whether there would be a way to make the scan key dependent on the secret key so that the addresses could be shorter
11:00 < josie> this hot device could be your own node, with the spend key kept securely tucked away in cold storage 
11:00 < josie> thanks everyone for attending, especially for two meetings in a row!
11:00 < josie> #endmeeting
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11:01 < abubakarsadiq> thanks Josie
11:01 < Murch> thanks josie 
11:01 < josie> Murch: hm, that's an interesting idea. I think the challenge there is you never want the sender to be able to learn your scan private key, because then they could scan and find all your payments
11:02 < glozow> btw, what did y'all think of this new review club format (monthly 2x meetings)? I'm personally a fan of having the extra time
11:02 < josie> we originally defined the scan key as the hash of the spend key (before we added BIP32 derivation), but then this means if your spend key is compromised, you lose everything, whereas if the scan and spend key are completely independent, either key can be compromised but you don't lose your funds
11:03 < Murch> Yeah, but if the scan private key depended on the spend private key, the scan public key could perhaps be derivable from the spend public key, without the spend private key being in risk of exposure in case the scan private key got leaked
11:03 < josie> glozow: I'm a huge fan. didn't feel like we had to rush in the first meeting and by the second meeting people already had context 
11:04 < josie> once a month also (hopefully) gives more time for people to dig into the PR before the meeting
11:04 < Murch> Ah, good point about the spend key becoming a single point of failure
11:04 < abubakarsadiq> to me it's nice that part 2 of pr's comes the next day, also a huge fan
11:04 < Murch> Yeah, it’s nice to have one prep and a longer discussion without losing context in between
11:04 < Murch> Okay, gotta get back to the salt mines
11:04 < Murch> Mastering Bitcoin doesn’t review itself
11:05 < josie> Murch: ah, interesting. hadn't considered that. worth exploring a bit more. altho, we don't _really_ need to optimize for size here because the silent payment address never ends up on chain. it would be nice, however, to have less data because that means smaller QR codes :)
11:06 < josie> also, im not sure if labels would still work if we had the spend pubkey derive from the scan pubkey
11:07 < glozow> josie: yeah and it was really helpful to have notes and questions up 1week+ ahead of time 👍 definitely gave more time to prepare
11:08 < glozow> I'm hosting next month. lmk if anybody has a request for which PR to review.
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--- Log closed Fri Aug 04 00:00:19 2023