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09:00 < stickies-v> #startmeeting
09:00 < stickies-v> hi everyone, welcome to the second part of our review club on #28956
09:01 < vmammal> hi
09:01 < stickies-v> the notes and questions are available at https://bitcoincore.reviews/28956
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09:01 < michaelfolkson> hi
09:01 < dergoegge> hi
09:01 < alfonsoromanz> hi everyone
09:01 < lightlike> Hi
09:01 < pablomartin> hello
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09:02 < TheCharlatan> hi
09:02 < Guest3466> hi
09:02 < henmeh> hi
09:02 < Ayelen> hi
09:02 < stickies-v> today we'll be focusing less on the concept and more on the code, sooo let's get technical!
09:03 < stickies-v> (for anyone that missed yesterday's meeting: yesterday's logs are also on https://bitcoincore.reviews/28956)
09:03 < emzy> hi
09:03 < stickies-v> 10.  Which operations were relying on network-adjusted time prior to this PR?
09:04 < alfonsoromanz> TestBlockValidity function
09:05 < stickies-v> yup, that's one! what else we got?
09:07 < brunoerg> hi
09:07 < instagibbs> ContextualCheckBlockHeader
09:08 < vmammal> `ChainstateManagerOps`  member adjusted_time_callback
09:08 < alfonsoromanz> m_max_commitments variable to keep a memory of how many commitments we should store from a peer
09:08 < stickies-v> instagibbs: yea indeed that's the function TestBlockValidity is calling that does the actual timestamp checking
09:08 < instagibbs> err yeah AcceptBlockHeader :P consensus check on block header
09:09 < stickies-v> alfonsoromanz: indeed!
09:10 < alfonsoromanz> the CreateNewBlock function from miner module 
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09:11 < michaelfolkson> I'm not seeing where say timelocks were relying network adjusted time... They're not right?
09:12 < stickies-v> alfonsoromanz: yes we use it to generate new block templates too
09:12 < stickies-v> michaelfolkson: no they're not, that's Median Time past
09:12 < michaelfolkson> stickies-v: ah thanks
09:13 < Ayelen> CanDirectFetch function on Peer Manager
09:13 < stickies-v> Ayelen: good find!
09:14 < stickies-v> this is just to highlight that the PR doesn't just affect block validity, but there are other implications too, which we need to validate
09:15 < stickies-v> does anyone see any problems with switching those callsites to system time? (besides the attack vectors discussed in yesterday's meeting)?
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09:17 < stickies-v> in the interest of time, i'll launch the next question already but always feel free to keep discussing previous questions
09:17 < stickies-v> 11. Does this PR introduce any difference in how and when it warns for a clock that appears out-of-sync with the network?
09:17 < grndslm> is it possible for time servers to be hacked and to influence blocks?
09:17 < michaelfolkson> Still has a SetMedianTimeOffsetWarning
09:18 < grndslm> just a thought.... i thought the wonder of bitcoin was that there was no oracle, but seems like usine time servers is introducing the first oracle..
09:18 < stickies-v> grndslm: yes, time servers are a possible source of problems, but that's what we discussed in yesterday's meeting
09:19 < stickies-v> grndslm: well, you don't need to use time servers?
09:20 < michaelfolkson> But calls getblockchaininfo now
09:21 < vmammal> i saw in the PR discussion, stickies-v mentioned that a warning is removed from the gui client
09:21 < stickies-v> michaelfolkson: the warning doesn't call any RPCs, it just adds the warning to some RPC responses if a user calls the RPC
09:22 < stickies-v> vmammal: well, trust don't verify, right? where's the code change that does that?
09:22 < stickies-v> *verify don't trust :( :(
09:22 < vmammal> lol
09:24 < lightlike> I think the warnings after this PR are fetch-only (you have to call a RPC to see it). Before the PR it was push (entry in the log, + popup in the gui).
09:25 < michaelfolkson> Should still be logged though right?
09:26 < stickies-v> lightlike: indeed! well, except that previously it was push and pull, it also was shown in certain RPCs through https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/3a0f54dd2402d74a5ac4304b3ad09014cfb25edf/src/timedata.cpp#L97
09:26 < michaelfolkson> When the warning is displayed
09:26 < stickies-v> michaelfolkson: I feel quite strongly about adding it to logging too, yes
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09:27 < stickies-v> is there any behaviour change in *when* the warning is raised?
09:28 < vmammal> same 70m threshold
09:29 < michaelfolkson> That's the default
09:29 < michaelfolkson> That could be changed by the user
09:30 < alfonsoromanz> my best guess: prior to the PR the warning was emitted after the offset is calculated (i.e after reaching 199 samples offsets?)
09:30 < alfonsoromanz> not sure about now. Maybe it's dynamic? 
09:32 < michaelfolkson> The warning is only displayed if the user calls a RPC and not otherwise. That's what you said right stickies-v?
09:33 < stickies-v> see https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/e7df61b1371bb0a44973bba33d4ea6823dc5f36b#diff-6875de769e90cec84d2e8a9c1b962cdbcda44d870d42e4215827e599e11e90e3R3620-R3624
09:34 < stickies-v> the warning can be emitted anytime we get a VERSION message from a peer, which is similar to before this PR
09:34 < stickies-v> it is emitted when the offset is too large, which is also similar to before this PR
09:35 < stickies-v> but as initially highlighted by naumenkogs, we currently warn as soon as we have 4 samples (i.e. peers connected) when previously this was 5 samples: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/28956#discussion_r1433684385
09:37 < stickies-v> 12. `TimeOffsets` has a size of `199`, but `CMedianFilter` was initialized with a size of `200`. What explains this difference?
09:37 < stickies-v> (link 1: https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/d079ffc9b8e9a81eb0bfb3da66f64c0257f16e71#diff-6875de769e90cec84d2e8a9c1b962cdbcda44d870d42e4215827e599e11e90e3R194)
09:37 < stickies-v> (link 2: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/3a0f54dd2402d74a5ac4304b3ad09014cfb25edf/src/timedata.cpp#L41-L44)
09:37 < lightlike> only VERSION messages from outbound peers though, and we have another unconditional logging msg for these already. So disk-filling attacks  via log messages are-not an issue here.
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09:38 < stickies-v> oh right that's a very good addition, thank you lightlike!
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09:38 < michaelfolkson> I don't really understand why there was an odd check on the number of elements in g_time_offsets
09:40 < vmammal> it's a mystery
09:42 < alfonsoromanz> michaelfolkson I believe it's because when a number set is odd, then the median ends up being the number "in the middle"
09:42 < stickies-v> alfonsoromanz: but the `CMedianFilter::median()` functionality explicitly handles containers of even size
09:44 < stickies-v> no one any ideas to Q12?
09:44 < vmammal> i thought michaelfolkson had it. the oddness check in AddTimeData
09:45 < michaelfolkson> Oh it isn't related to this odd/even thing? I assumed it was, sorry
09:45 < Ayelen> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4521 this issue explains unexpected behavior using 200
09:47 < stickies-v> oh, i didn't interpret it that way, sorry
09:47 < stickies-v> well no there's a different reason
09:48 < stickies-v> CMedianFilter used a container of size 200, but it was also initialized with an offset of 0, essentially leaving 199 "real" inputs
09:48 < stickies-v> see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/3a0f54dd2402d74a5ac4304b3ad09014cfb25edf/src/timedata.cpp#L44 and the constructor of CMedianFilter
09:49 < stickies-v> Ayelen: the issue you linked is more about making it explicit that we never go above 200 (which, from what i understand from my perusal of historical PRs, was never intended, but eventually kept to address other, undisclosed, vulnerabilities)
09:50 < Ayelen> got it, thanks!
09:50 < stickies-v> 13. Which of the values {0, 5, -2, 50s, 70m} are valid inputs for `-maxtimeadjustment`?
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09:51 < michaelfolkson> int64
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09:52 < michaelfolkson> Signed integer
09:53 < lightlike> also, for many years timedata was also from taken from inbound peers, not just outbounds. So it was pretty easily to manipulate for an attacker, that could make multiple connections to you. Stopping at 199 samples was a slightly crude way to prevent that, because once the node was running for a few hours/days it was "safe" from this attack.
09:53 < stickies-v> michaelfolkson: we're talking about user input here though
09:54 < stickies-v> lightlike: ah, that's good background, thanks for sharing
09:54 < vmammal> 13. I tried passing each of these to core, all with no issue
09:55 < alfonsoromanz> I see that there are no validations, i.e: ArgsManager::ALLOW_ANY
09:55 < vmammal> though -2 seems redundant, as time offset implies +/-
09:55 < stickies-v> you can read more about the change lightlike mentioned at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/23631
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09:56 < stickies-v> vmammal: indeed! so technically, they're all "valid", surprisingly
09:57 < stickies-v> so what happens when we run `bitcoind -maxtimeadjustment 70m`?
09:57 < stickies-v> vmammal: what do you mean with redundant?
09:57 < pablomartin> lightlike, stickies-v: insteresting (#23631)... not that long ago...
09:58 < vmammal> stickies-v simply passing positive 2 would have the same effect. or is that not the case?
09:59 < stickies-v> alfonsoromanz: indeed, validation on cli arguments is only partially implemented (unlike the RPC args validation which is more extensive), see https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/737e5884cc82dc352cef3ef26abc1cb8d3500b8b/src/common/args.h#L103-L110
09:59 < stickies-v> vmammal: no, it doesn't. and interestingly, the resulting behaviour is different on master versus on #28956
09:59 < vmammal> oh geez
10:00 < michaelfolkson> ha
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10:01 < stickies-v> previously, negative values would get floored at 0: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/3a0f54dd2402d74a5ac4304b3ad09014cfb25edf/src/timedata.cpp#L81
10:02 < stickies-v> now, we don't have that anymore: https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/e7df61b1371bb0a44973bba33d4ea6823dc5f36b#diff-a0e6a08e5970d9070be6837f51f6c30b04e9a512fd12ee8d7548753c476f8a62R27
10:03 < stickies-v> i'll leave the effects of that as a small exercise to the reader, because we are unfortunately at time already
10:03 < stickies-v> thanks everyone for joining again, and dergoegge for authoring the PR!
10:03 < vmammal> thanks stickies-v dergoegge
10:04 < michaelfolkson> Thanks both!
10:04 < stickies-v> #endmeeting
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10:04 < lightlike> thanks stickies-v 
10:04 < dergoegge> thanks stickies-v
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10:04 < emzy> thanks stickies-v and all
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10:05 < pablomartin> thanks stickies-v and all!
10:06 < alfonsoromanz> thanks everyone
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--- Log closed Fri Jan 05 00:00:22 2024