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01:40 < glozow> Reminder: we have a meeting today at 17 UTC for https://bitcoincore.reviews/30352
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10:00 < glozow> #startmeeting
10:00 < glozow> hi
10:00 < monlovesmango> hey
10:00 < instagibbs> hi (lurking only)
10:00 < vostrnad> hi
10:00 < codingp110> hi
10:00 < glozow> Welcome to PR Review Club! Feel free to say hi
10:00 < stickies-v> hi
10:01 < glozow> Today's PR is P2A: https://bitcoincore.reviews/30352
10:01 < glozow> Did everybody get a chance to review the PR or read through the notes?
10:01 < monlovesmango> yes
10:01 < stickies-v> yup
10:02 < glozow> Awesome. For those who reviewed, what was your review approach?
10:02 < emc99> hi
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10:03 < monlovesmango> mostly just reviewed the code (as much as I could) and read through pr and some of other linked documentation
10:03 < glozow> monlovesmango: cool!
10:03 < glozow> Let's dive into the questions
10:03 < glozow> Before `TxoutType::ANCHOR` is defined in this PR, what TxoutType would a scriptPubKey OP_1 <0x4e73> be classified as?
10:04 < monlovesmango> TxoutType::WITNESS_UNKONWN I think
10:04 < stickies-v> yup that's my understanding too
10:04 < glozow> monlovesmango: yep!
10:05 < stickies-v> it's witness version 1 but not 32 bytes in size
10:05 < glozow> didn't need to give the hint, but here's the code: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/24f86783c87e836c98404bcc20a07742736d6b56/src/script/solver.cpp#L172-L176
10:05 < glozow> And would it be standard to create this output type (`WITNESS_UNKNOWN`)?
10:05 < monlovesmango> yes
10:06 < vostrnad> it's even been done already ;)
10:06 < instagibbs> *looks suspiciously at vostrnad*
10:06 < monlovesmango> XD
10:06 < glozow> indeed, do anyone have a block explorer link to that tx? I couldn't find it
10:07 < glozow> does*
10:07 < vostrnad> all 3 existing P2A UTXOs here: https://mempool.space/address/bc1pfeessrawgf
10:07 < glozow> Ok, what about to spend it? Would that have been standard? (before this PR)
10:07 < instagibbs> b10c0000004da5a9d1d9b4ae32e09f0b3e62d21a5cce5428d4ad714fb444eb5d
10:07 < monlovesmango> no
10:07 < glozow> monlovesmango: bonus points if you have a link to code :P
10:08 < glozow> (correct)
10:08 < monlovesmango> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/policy/policy.cpp#L188
10:08 < monlovesmango> ?
10:09 < instagibbs> that's one spot, there's another too(read hte comment)
10:10 < vostrnad> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/script/interpreter.cpp#L1950
10:12 < glozow> vostrnad: nice
10:12 < glozow> Before this PR, with default settings, which output types can be created in a standard transaction?
10:12 < monlovesmango> haha i was not going to find that anytime soon...
10:13 < monlovesmango> PUBKEY, PUBKEYHASH, SCRIPTHASH, MULTISIG, NULL_DATA, WITNESS_V0_KEYHASH, WITNESS_V0_SCRIPTHASH, WITNESS_V1_TAPROOT, WITNESS_UNKNOWN
10:14 < vostrnad> correct
10:14 < glozow> monlovesmango: awesome yeah, more details at https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/e8eab747192bd330e67bff1222bb851bc515b134/src/policy/policy.cpp#L53-L74
10:14 < glozow> And as we've established, that's not the same as what can be spent in a standard tx
10:15 < glozow> Define anchor output, without mentioning Lightning Network transactions (ie try to be more general).
10:16 < monlovesmango> an extra output created on presigned transactions which allows fees to be added via CPFP at the time of broadcasting.
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10:16 < glozow> monlovesmango: great definition 👍
10:17 < glozow> Not on the list, but can someone tell us the difference between a keyed and a keyless anchor? And why that matters?
10:17 < stickies-v> a keyless anchor doesn't contain a pubkey in its scriptpubkey, significantly reducing its on-chain footprint (and cost)
10:18 < glozow> stickies-v: yes, and anybody can spend it
10:18 < monlovesmango> I think keyless means that anyone can create a child for it (ie you don't need a specific key), which reduces the scriptPubkey size
10:19 < glozow> monlovesmango: yes anybody can spend it. it doesn't inherently make the onchain data smaller but it is true in this case
10:19 < glozow> for example you could have a p2wsh where one of several spending paths is something anybody can spend, which is larger
10:20 < glozow> Did anybody, while reviewing, try to verify that a P2A tx can be created but not spend in policy (before the PR)?
10:20 < glozow> Beyond code review I mean
10:20 < monlovesmango> was just about to ask about what case this wouldn't be true! thanks!
10:20 < monlovesmango> no
10:22 < vostrnad> instagibbs was, using Twitter as a broadcasting channel, doesn't seem to have worked
10:22 < glozow> current LN commitment transactions are a more concrete example https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/03-transactions.md#to_local_anchor-and-to_remote_anchor-output-option_anchors (there is a key, but since it is revealed, anybody can reconstruct the script)
10:22 < glozow> vostrnad: ah cool i didn't see that
10:22 < instagibbs> vostrnad ;(
10:23 < glozow> I was just suggesting you compile master, and then run the tests 😅
10:23 < glozow> Why does the size of the output script of an anchor output matter?
10:24 < vostrnad> the smaller the betterer?
10:24 < monlovesmango> the larger the anchor output size, the more fees you need to prioritize it to be relayed
10:25 < glozow> yeah pretty much
10:25 < instagibbs> smaller script also means min satoshi value to relay is smaller too
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10:26 < glozow> also more efficient fee bumping = incentives to fee bump this way...
10:27 < glozow> What other ways can you think of to implement an ‘anyone-can-spend’ anchor?
10:27 < vostrnad> instagibbs: sure but policy can be changed any time, perhaps there could be a dust policy carve out for P2A as it's unusually cheap to spend
10:28 < monlovesmango> P2SH of OP_TRUE..?
10:28 < glozow> I suppose you could just implement GetDustThreshold for P2A for the same effect, no?
10:28 < glozow> monlovesmango: great! And why is that not as good as P2A?
10:28 < monlovesmango> bc it introduces transaction malleability
10:29 < monlovesmango> (which makes chained presigned transactions unreliable)
10:30 < glozow> monlovesmango: how would you malleate the tx?
10:31 < monlovesmango> i guess i am fuzzy on whether its a problem if there is only a single presigned tx. however if there were multiple presigned txs strung together, the miner could insert a OP_NOP in the scriptSig which would change the tx id
10:31 < monlovesmango> which would break the chain
10:32 < monlovesmango> (all taken from instagibbs pr comment https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/30352#issuecomment-2228528366)
10:33 < instagibbs> fwiw p2sh requires push-only scriptsig, so I don't think the NOP thing works for p2sh, but cleanstack is the other thing
10:33 < glozow> it's also larger, no?
10:33 < instagibbs> yeh. p2sh(OP_DEPTH OP_NOT) might be txid stable? 
10:33 < instagibbs> (but ugh)
10:34 < glozow> wait what does OP_DEPTH do?
10:34 < monlovesmango> if there were only usecases for a single presigned tx, would there be any issue with P2SH?
10:34 < monlovesmango> (apart from maybe size..?)
10:34 < glozow> oh size of stack
10:35 < sipa> p2sh(OP_DEPTH OP_1 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_1) maybe?
10:35 < sipa> eh
10:35 < sipa> p2sh(OP_DEPTH OP_0 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_1) maybe?
10:35 < sipa> oh, OP_NOT, i misread it as OP_NOP; indeed!
10:35 < vostrnad> instagibbs: interesting, it never occurred to me you could make a non-malleable P2SH output like that
10:35 < instagibbs> so you could probably get smaller than P2WSH(OP_TRUE) and still be txid stable
10:36 < monlovesmango> what does push-only scriptsig mean? that you can only use OP codes that push onto the stack?
10:36 < sipa> monlovesmango: indeed, this is a BIP16 consensus rule
10:36 < instagibbs> vostrnad h/t jeremy, he proposed the bare version
10:36 < vostrnad> monlovesmango: scriptSig is actually a script that in legacy script can have non-push opcodes as well
10:37 < sipa> which likely was one day intended to support delegation, before the scriptSig/scriptPubkey execution split in 2010
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10:37 < monlovesmango> got it thank you for all the background!!
10:37 < vostrnad> instagibbs: bare version is malleable though because no push-only
10:37 < instagibbs> vostrnad exactly 👍
10:38 < glozow> What is the difference between OP_TRUE and OP_1? (Hint: where are they defined in the code?)
10:39 < monlovesmango> but just to verify my understanding, its the spending tx that becomes malleable when using the bare version right?
10:39 < instagibbs> monlovesmango yes a miner can insert OP_NOP
10:40 < monlovesmango> awesome thanks
10:41 < abubakarsadiq> glozow: I think they are the same?
10:41 < vostrnad> "they're the same picture"
10:41 < glozow> abubakarsadiq: yes :D
10:41 < abubakarsadiq> `OP_TRUE=OP_1`
10:41 < glozow> What is the difference between OP_TRUE and OP_1? (Hint: where are they defined in the code?)
10:41 < glozow> oops wrong paste
10:41 < glozow> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/da083d4bbdb37737f5080fada97bd15f5a8bfb2d/src/script/script.h#L82-L83
10:42 < monlovesmango> haha tricky q
10:42 < Murch[m]> What’s OP_TRUE? Isn’t that just OP_1?
10:42 < glozow> it's a Q to get people out of lurking, it worked :P
10:42 < monlovesmango> heheheh
10:42 < glozow> How many virtual bytes are needed to create and spend a P2A output?
10:43 < glozow> that Q was designed to lure Murch here, but I see he's already appeared
10:43 < sipa> Murch[m]: I see your message as "What’s QOP_TRUE? Isn’t that just QOP_1?", what are those Qs?
10:43  * Murch[m] goes back into hiding
10:43 < glozow> backticks?
10:44  * Murch[m] uploaded an image: (7KiB) < https://matrix.bitcoin.ninja/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/OwgTaVVPBpxeysmEgKuIuRET/image.png >
10:44 < Murch[m]> Are you on IRC or Matrix?
10:44 < Murch[m]> But sorry, we are derailing
10:45 < Murch[m]> A keyless Anchor is 11 bytes, and the input would be 41 bytes?
10:45 < Murch[m]> s/bytes/vbytes/
10:46 < vostrnad> Murch[m]: I count 40.25 vbytes to spend, did you round down?
10:46 < vostrnad> *up
10:46 < Murch[m]> The input script length is a whole vbyte, right?
10:46 < Murch[m]> 32+4+4+1
10:47 < vostrnad> sorry, 41.25 vbytes (1 WU for the witness stack length)
10:47 < Murch[m]> Also it might only be 10 bytes for the output? Amount (8 B), output script length (1  B), OP_1 (1 B)
10:47 < Murch[m]> vostrnad: Sure, if you have other inputs with witnesses
10:48 < vostrnad> you better do!
10:48 < instagibbs> segwit.... but !HasWitness(), spooky
10:49 < vostrnad> I get 12 bytes for a P2A output, 8 bytes for amount and 4 bytes for output script
10:49 < vostrnad> wrong again, 13 (forgot output script length)
10:49 < instagibbs> :)
10:49 < vostrnad> these things are hard
10:49 < Murch[m]> Yeah
10:49 < Murch[m]> What do you have for the output script in detail?
10:50 < glozow> 51 02 4e 73 is 4 bytes yes?
10:50 < glozow> oh and 1
10:50 < Murch[m]> Oh, it’s witness output, not a bare output
10:50 < vostrnad> bare output would be malleable
10:50 < glozow> instagibbs: too spooky
10:51 < glozow> ok so we've landed on 13 + 41?
10:51 < sipa> woah, segwit output but !HasWitness() on the input is legal?
10:51 < sipa> i guess it's only the other way around that non-segwit output with HasWitness() is illegal?
10:51 < glozow> 9 more minutes, 3 more questions
10:51 < glozow> The 3rd commit adds `if (prevScript.IsPayToAnchor()) return false` to IsWitnessStandard. What does this do, and why is it needed?
10:55 < monlovesmango> does it allow the option to opt out of anchor txs?
10:55 < abubakarsadiq> It prevent adding a witness for a keyless anchor input, since it's no witness is needed to validate the utxo
10:55 < glozow> maybe the code link will help https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/ccad5a5728c8916f8cec09e838839775a6026293#diff-ea6d307faa4ec9dfa5abcf6858bc19603079f2b8e110e1d62da4df98f4bdb9c0R228-R232
10:56 < glozow> abubakarsadiq: correct, no witness stuffing allowed
10:56 < glozow> anybody have a link to the test case for this? (you can find it by commenting out this line to see what fails)
10:56 < instagibbs> an adversary could take an honest spend, add stuff to witness, propagate it at a lower feerate, and honest user would have to pay incremental fees to replace it...
10:57 < instagibbs> (and the adversary could just keep doing it)
10:57 < abubakarsadiq> the tx is just not standard, but still valid right?
10:58 < glozow> ye, `IsWitnessStandard`
10:58 < vostrnad> abubakarsadiq: yes, but miners have no reason to inflate your tx if it doesn't malleate it
10:59 < glozow> test: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/da083d4bbdb37737f5080fada97bd15f5a8bfb2d/test/functional/mempool_accept.py#L399-L414
11:00 < glozow> that's time
11:00 < glozow> #endmeeting
11:00 < glozow> Thanks everyone!
11:00 < abubakarsadiq> try out the test locally, by commenting the conditional statement, the test fails
11:00 < monlovesmango> thanks glozow and instagibbs for hosting!
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11:00 < instagibbs> thanks for hosting glozow
11:01 < emc99> thanks glozow and instagibbs
11:01 < abubakarsadiq> thanks for hosting @glozow learnt alot from the notes, thanks for good description @instagibbs
11:01 < emc99> learnmeabitcoin.com
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--- Log closed Thu Aug 08 00:00:17 2024