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09:56 < glozow> ping?
09:56 < glozow> Will get started in a few minutes
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09:58 < kevkevin> pong
09:58 < glozow> kevkevin: thanks :)
10:00 < tdb3> hi
10:00 < glozow> #startmeeting
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10:00 < kevkevin> hi
10:00 < glozow> Hi everyone! This is the PR Review Club meeting
10:00 < Guest27> hi
10:00 < monlovesmango> heyy
10:01 < danielabrozzoni> hi :)
10:01 < dzxzg> hi!
10:01 < glozow> We are looking at "add getorphantxs" today. Notes and questions can be found at https://bitcoincore.reviews/30793
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10:01 < glozow> Did anybody get a chance to review the PR or look at the notes?
10:01 < monlovesmango> yes a bit
10:01 < kevkevin> was able to breifly
10:01 < dzxzg> Reviewed code, didn't have a chance to test
10:02 < danielabrozzoni> yes, still need to finish my review 
10:02 < glozow> Great! :)
10:03 < glozow> We'll jump in to the questions now, but feel free to ask anything related to the PR at any time. This meeting is for learning.
10:03 < glozow> What is an orphan transaction? At what point do transactions enter the orphanage (can you find the line of code)?
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10:03 < monlovesmango> orphan transaction is a transaction that has missing inputs
10:04 < kevkevin> an orphaned transaction is one where the parents/inputs are unknown
10:04 < monlovesmango> is this it..? https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/net_processing.cpp#L82
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10:04 < monlovesmango> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/net_processing.cpp#L4685
10:04 < danielabrozzoni> in PeerManagerImpl::ProcessMessage, when a TX message is received, the transaction is validated; if it fails with TX_MISSING_INPUTS, parents are evaluated and it might be added to the orphanage 
10:04 < monlovesmango> (ignore first link)
10:04 < glozow> monlovesmango: kevkevin: correct definition!
10:05 < glozow> monlovesmango: danielabrozzoni: yes exactly
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10:05 < glozow> Here's a permalink: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/6a370435526875a441001be8c44c9b94a2361c8c/src/net_processing.cpp#L4678
10:05 < glozow> What command can you run to get a list of available RPCs?
10:06 < monlovesmango> bitcoin-cli -help is all I know of
10:06 < Naiyoma> bitcoin-cli help
10:06 < kevkevin> can't you just run bitcoin-cli -help
10:06 < glozow> correct
10:06 < kevkevin> I think maybe you can add something for the hidden rpc's
10:06 < danielabrozzoni> is there a way to get the hidden rpcs in help?
10:06 < Guest27> "-help" is for the "client" and "help" is for the RPCs, right?
10:06 < glozow> oh, good question...
10:07 < glozow> I'm not sure if you can get a list of hidden ones
10:07 < kevkevin> Guest27 ya your right it should be bitcoin-cli help
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10:08 < glozow> yeah, no dash for the RPCs
10:08 < glozow> What is the benefit of the first commit, which creates a public OrphanTxBase and extends that in a protected struct OrphanTx?
10:09 < monlovesmango> weird, i need the dash with bitcoin-cli
10:09 < glozow> monlovesmango: what error do you get without the dash?
10:10 < monlovesmango> that the server isn't running
10:10 < glozow> monlovesmango: is your node not running maybe?
10:10 < kevkevin> maybe you need bitcoind running?
10:10 < monlovesmango> oh ok i see thank you!
10:11 < dzxzg> the public OrphanTxBase makes PeerManager able to handle OrphanTxBase
10:12 < glozow> dzxzg: right, that's part of it. peerman isn't able to see the definition of `struct OrphanTx`. But why not just make that public?
10:13 < danielabrozzoni> i think the idea is to expose only some info about orphan txs, but not all of them, so there is a public structure and a protected one. i'm not sure why OrphanTx extends OrphanTxBase, maybe to avoid changing a lot of code to use the new Base structure?
10:13 < dzxzg> +1 I think we don't want to expose any more members of OrphanTx than are necessary
10:13 < tdb3> danielabrozzoni: dzxzg: bingo
10:13 < glozow> danielabrozzoni: that is my understanding as well
10:14 < glozow> More general c++ question: What is the difference between public, protected, and private? When should you use each for a class member/method?
10:15 < Naiyoma> public, means that attributes and methods are accessible everywhere
10:16 < dzxzg> private members are not accessible by any functions outside of the class
10:16 < kevkevin> public any thing can access its values, private only the class functions can access the values and protected I'm not sure tbh
10:16 < dzxzg> protected makes members accessible as private to descendants
10:16 < monlovesmango> public is for things that can be accessed externally, protected is for when only children can access, and private is for no external access
10:16 < glozow> great answers
10:16 < glozow> when should you use protected instead of private?
10:17 < Guest27> when you really really want to give access to subclasses, but nothing else.
10:17 < monlovesmango> when children should be able to access but no one else should be able to
10:18 < Naiyoma> when you don't need to completely restrict access, to derived classes
10:18 < kevkevin> use protected when you're expecting children to access the data but you dont want anything else to
10:18 < Guest27> if in doubt - use private.
10:18 < glozow> I suppose there isn't 1 right answer to this question. I've seen "use private as much as possible" and "private for members, protected for internal methods"
10:19 < kevkevin> So this means that if we extend OrphanTx then that class should be able to access the variables defined there? Where if it was private we would not be able to?
10:19 < monlovesmango> i guess protected for anything that should be inherited then?
10:19 < glozow> You mean subclasses of `TxOrphanage`?
10:20 < Guest27> if one uses private by default, it is clear that subclasses don't need those parts. you don't need to grep around.
10:20 < kevkevin> sorry ya subclasses of TxOrphanage
10:21 < glozow> kevkevin: yes. I haven't tried this, but you can try editing and the `TxOrphanageTest` class in orphanage_tests.cpp should complain
10:21 < kevkevin> ok sounds good thanks!
10:21 < glozow> If an RPC has a non-string argument, does anything special need to be done to handle it?
10:25 < Naiyoma> yes, I think during RPCHelpMan declaration the argument type is defined,  for this rpc its RPCArg::Type::NUM
10:26 < luisschwab> You have to add it to the vRPCConvertParams list
10:26 < Naiyoma> but also this checks ParseVerbosity for a bool or a int
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10:27 < kevkevin> I think this comment tells a little bit about that https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/b6368fc285bf00b3033061dcd4e29298b227c6df/src/rpc/client.cpp#L25
10:27 < kevkevin> we need to add the arg to src/rpc/client.cpp
10:28 < glozow> Looks correct to me... tdb3 did you have anything to add?
10:29 < tdb3> nothing for now
10:29 < tdb3> (for that question)
10:29 < glozow> We already mentioned this, but What specifically does it mean that the RPC is “hidden”? Why hidden and not net?
10:29 < glozow> https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/8ec094959dc6afd46a709190d2deb58a50593fb7#diff-9c5b83de6dc84af277e352c88b9291aa44340a3c75f572a0b51661eb0a838de9R1131
10:30 < luisschwab> It doesn't show up on `bitcoin-cli help`. Maybe because this RPC is more aimed at developers instead of end users.
10:30 < kevkevin> because the rpc is meant to be used by developers
10:31 < monlovesmango> bc its mostly for devs and this also allow room for future changes
10:31 < glozow> Right, we don't want to overwhelm everyday users with a big list of RPCs that are unlikely to be relevant to them
10:31 < kevkevin> is there a reason why in `bitcoin-cli help` there is no way to show the hidden rpcs with a arg like `bitcoin-cli help -hidden`
10:32 < glozow> Why can’t we just directly access the orphanage from the RPC code? Why don’t we just add a PeerManager function that returns a reference to the `TxOrphanage`, which would be more extensible?
10:33 < glozow> kevkevin: idk. I suppose if you want the hidden RPCs, it's probably equally convenient for you to look at the source code for it
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10:33 < glozow> Maybe there is a way to get the list I'm just not aware of
10:34 < dzxzg> I think similarly to the above discussion about why TxOrphanage remains protected, it's always best to expose as little interface as possible
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10:34 < dzxzg> or not always, but as a rule of thumb
10:34 < glozow> dzxzg: yep agreed
10:35 < glozow> What is the maximum size of the result from this RPC (I'm looking for some rough math)?
10:35 < glozow> Let's start with verbosity = 0. What's the max size, roughly?
10:36 < tdb3> glozow: by max size, are we discussing bytes or number of elements returned?
10:36 < glozow> Hint: Is there a limit to how many orphans are retained?
10:36 < glozow> tdb3: rough bytes
10:37 < danielabrozzoni> By default, it's 100 orphans max (DEFAULT_MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS)
10:37 < luisschwab> 100 orphans limit, 32 bytes per, ~3200 bytes (plus brackets and commas)
10:37 < glozow> danielabrozzoni: luisschwab: yep! that's the kind of answer I was looking for
10:38 < glozow> verbosity = 1 adds some more bytes on top of that, but still 100 entries max. What about verbosity = 2?
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10:38 < kevkevin> ya looks like here we limit orphan amount https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/6a370435526875a441001be8c44c9b94a2361c8c/src/net_processing.cpp#L4687C49-L4687C63
10:38 < glozow> kevkevin: yep, great find
10:39 < glozow> Bonus question for the line that kevkevin sent (exercise your `git log` and `git blame` skills): Since when has there been a maximum orphanage size? What about maximum orphan size?
10:39 < kevkevin> is there a limit to size returned if we change max_orphan_txs?
10:40 < glozow> kevkevin: it'd still be a multiple of that number
10:41 < kevkevin> glozow oh ya thats true
10:42 < glozow> for verbosity = 2, I was looking for answer along the lines of "max size of the hex is 400kB since orphan transactions can't be larger than that"
10:42 < glozow> Anybody do some git log/blameing?
10:43 < kevkevin> I'm trying to do `git log -L 4686,4688:./src/net_processing.cpp` rn
10:43 < luisschwab> glozow: since 2023-07-25 for orphanage size
10:43 < glozow> luisschwab: are you sure?
10:43 < Naiyoma> found this commit for MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/142e604184e3ab6dcbe02cebcbe08e5623182b81#diff-910d89612d74e91ae70ed40289b3910b1c1a09b1f5a1bb0b15849f70760cbba2R36
10:44 < dzxzg> 100 * (txid(4) + wtxid(4) + size (4 bytes) + virtualsize ( 8 bytes) + weight (4 bytes) + expiration (8 bytes) + 8 bytes (nodeid) + longest allowed transaction is 100,000 bytes)
10:44 < glozow> Naiyoma: fantastic :)
10:44 < glozow> Took me a while. 2012!
10:45 < dzxzg> ~1 MB
10:45 < dzxzg> did I make a mistake?
10:45 < kevkevin> oh wow 2012 thats a while ago
10:45 < glozow> dzxzg: looks pretty good! but remember that it's 100k virtual bytes, so 400kB
10:46 < dzxzg> Oh!
10:47 < glozow> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/6a370435526875a441001be8c44c9b94a2361c8c/src/txorphanage.cpp#L30
10:47 < instagibbs> "git log -S MAX_ORPHAN_TRANSACTIONS --source --all" then paging all the way down is how I find these historical things
10:47 < luisschwab> Oh, I was checking the last update on that line, it seems he made a style change last year
10:48 < glozow> instagibbs: great tip, great for finding stuff in an old branch too
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10:49 < glozow> luisschwab: right, you don't want the last time the line was touched, you want to keep digging until you find the original commit it was introduced
10:49 < glozow> Using the `getorphantxs` RPC, would we be able to tell how long a transaction has been in the orphanage? If yes, how would you do it?
10:49 < dzxzg> you can also do git blame <commit>^ to see the blame for the parent of a commit
10:50 < glozow> I like the vim-fugitive plugin: https://github.com/tpope/vim-fugitive
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10:51 < glozow> It's very quick for figuring out which commit to --fixup as well
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10:52 < luisschwab> It has a 20 minute life in the orphanage, and the RPC returns the expiration timestamp.
10:52 < danielabrozzoni> yes, you can calculate when a transaction was inserted by looking at the expiration (using verbosity = 1) and subtracting ORPHAN_TX_EXPIRE_TIME
10:52 < glozow> danielabrozzoni: yep!
10:52 < kevkevin> I see NodeSeconds nTimeExpire maybe that can be used to tell how long its been there
10:52 < glozow> btw, orphan expiration has been around since 2016: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/commit/11cc143895e730002749f0881c4c95635fa54bd5
10:53 < dzxzg> (I use this lua script to also be able to quickly open bitcoin core PR's when using fugitive in neovim: https://gist.github.com/davidgumberg/50c42abd59214a444b2117beb8648369)
10:53 < Naiyoma> + using expiration timestamp
10:53 < glozow> dzxzg: niiiiice
10:55 < glozow> Using this RPC, would we be able to tell what the inputs of an orphan transaction are? If yes, how would you do it?
10:55 < monlovesmango> with verbosity 2 you can get the hex?
10:56 < luisschwab> deserialize the hex
10:56 < Naiyoma> decoderawtransaction "hexstring"
10:56 < glozow> yep
10:56 < glozow> Btw, did anybody try 0xb10c's visualizer? https://observablehq.com/d/a481f4ced64b7975
10:59 < luisschwab> yeah, pretty cool
10:59 < glozow> Ok y'all, we are about out of time. Make sure you review the tests as well. And post your reviews on the PR!
10:59 < tdb3> thanks all
10:59 < monlovesmango> thanks glozow and tdb3!
10:59 < Emc99> Thanks
10:59 < danielabrozzoni> thanks for hosting, i learned a lot! 
10:59 < dzxzg> Thanks!
10:59 < Naiyoma> thanks
10:59 < Guest27> thanks!
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10:59 < glozow> A good way to test is of course to try it on mainnet, and look at the transactions in your orphanage. I sanity checked against mempool.space to see that the sizes for example, because it was a little bit suspicious how many were vsize = 141 :P
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11:00 < glozow> Thanks for coming!
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11:00 < kevkevin> Thank you!!!!
11:00 < glozow> #endmeeting
11:00 < glozow> to see that the sizes matched*
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