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05:06 < glozow> dergoegge: thanks for the branch!
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08:58 < glozow> hi
08:58 < glozow> folks here? :)
08:58 < chinggg> hi
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08:59 < instagibbs> 👋
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08:59 < glozow> yayyy
08:59 < marcofleon> hello
09:00 < glozow> #startmeeting
09:00 < glozow> welcome back!
09:00 < glozow> this is part 2 of https://bitcoincore.reviews/31397
09:01 < marcofleon> woo!
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09:01 < dergoegge> hi
09:01 < glozow> did anybody review the PR any further between yesterday and now?
09:01 < glozow> thanks for the reviews btw dergoegge and instagibbs
09:02 < marcofleon> A little but not much unfortunately
09:03 < glozow> We can pick up where we left off and ofc bring  up any questions you have: Prior to this PR, what are all the `TxOrphanage` methods that remove an orphan, and where in the code are they called?
09:03 < marcofleon> Took a look at dergoegge's alternate solution
09:03 < glozow> I'll give the first of 5 links: we remove an orphan when it's accepted to mempool by calling `EraseTx`, here https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/dbc8ba12f3b3548dd6955293c5d650320ca39c5b/src/node/txdownloadman_impl.cpp#L301
09:03 < instagibbs> LimitOrphans, for timeouts and random eviction
09:04 < chinggg> EraseTx, EraseForPeer, EraseForBlock
09:05 < marcofleon> called in BlockConnected, DisconnectedPeer,  mempoolAcceptedTx, and MempoolRejectedtx
09:05 < glozow> instagibbs: yep, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/dbc8ba12f3b3548dd6955293c5d650320ca39c5b/src/node/txdownloadman_impl.cpp#L375
09:05 < glozow> chinggg: yep! those are the functions, you just missed `LimitOrphans`
09:05 < glozow> marcofleon: yep, got em
09:05 < dergoegge> there is a 6th: `~TxOrphanage()` 😎
09:05 < marcofleon> LimitOrphans is called in MempoolRejected too
09:06 < glozow> dergoegge: hah
09:06 < glozow> marcofleon: yes, what are the 2 conditions within `MempoolRejectedTx`?
09:09 < glozow> ok so one of them is when the orphan is found to be invalid for a reason other than missing inputs https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/dbc8ba12f3b3548dd6955293c5d650320ca39c5b/src/node/txdownloadman_impl.cpp#L444
09:09 < marcofleon> One is to limit DoS yeah? LimitOrphans
09:09 < glozow> marcofleon: correct, we call `LimitOrphans` each time we add a transaction to orphanage
09:09 < marcofleon> which is in the missing inputs and parents aren't rejected
09:09 < glozow> yep
09:11 < marcofleon> nice, thanks
09:11 < glozow> taking a look at the logic for adding a tx to the orphanage within this PR: [logic](https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/c04d1a876cdbcd159c53dde55d57a55675c41f38#diff-3fc44df0a49b8a2fa4cb515b41fae470b794c32c93e632edb18ae14e8fcb159dR462-R481)
09:11 < glozow> Is it possible that there are candidate peers but `AddTx` is not called - how? Why is that important?
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09:13 < marcofleon> I wasn't too sure how to interpret the question but I thought no it's not possible. Whenver there's a peer that passes OrphanResolutionCandidate the orphan tx gets added
09:13 < instagibbs> If you get an INV after tx is orphanage already you add announcer via wtxid?
09:13 < marcofleon> AddTx won't be called basically if there are no candidate peers
09:14 < glozow> marcofleon: is there any case where `OrphanResolutionCandidate` returns `std::nullopt`?
09:14 < marcofleon> wait yeah ofc
09:15 < glozow> instagibbs: right. this logic only operates on the existing announcers though, it's when we just found out the tx is an orphan
09:15 < glozow> marcofleon: and what's the case?
09:15 < marcofleon> if a peer without relay permission has too many tracked annoucements
09:15 < marcofleon> and then if the peer doesn't exist in m_peer_info
09:16 < instagibbs> hmm? I think im missing the actual question
09:16 < chinggg> `if (m_txrequest.Count(nodeid) + m_orphan_resolution_tracker.Count(nodeid) >= MAX_PEER_TX_ANNOUNCEMENTS) return std::nullopt;`
09:17 < glozow> instagibbs: maybe the link doesn't render well. we're looking at the code block in `MempoolRejectedTx` where we're `add_orphan_reso_candidate` ing
09:17 < glozow> chinggg: marcofleon: yep!
09:17 < glozow> so if a peer is flooding us with invs, we'll drop them as an orphan reso candidate
09:18 < dergoegge> glozow: yea the link doesn't jump to the highlighted section for some reason
09:18 < glozow> thank you github
09:18 < marcofleon> I guess I was interpreting candidate to mean a peer that passes.... but that's not really the defintion of candidate
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09:18 < glozow> importantly, if they are the only announcer, we won't call `AddTx` at all
09:19 < dergoegge> that changes behavior from before right?
09:19 < glozow> yeah
09:19 < glozow> I don't like the fact that a new orphan always gets added
09:20 < dergoegge> we won't resolve the parents anyway so that seems fine
09:20 < glozow> In the future we should modify `OrphanResolutionCandidate` to also drop if e.g. this peer is already taking up half our orphanage space
09:20 < glozow> or 100KvB, or 10 orphans, or something
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09:20 < instagibbs> more like OrphanResolutionNominee
09:20 < chinggg> another step to prevent DoS on orphan
09:21 < glozow> This PR edits some of the erasures to potentially keep the transaction in the orphanage and only modify the announcers list instead. Which places are these, and why? 
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09:22 < marcofleon> eraseForPeer and the new function EraseOrphanOfPeer
09:23 < marcofleon> We only want to erase the orphan for the peer that announced, not erase the orphan entirely as we did before
09:23 < premitive2> I'm thinking so that another candidate can be called in GetRequestsToSend if another peer is disconnected or otherwise unresponsive
09:23 < glozow> premitive2: yes exactly
09:25 < glozow> Commit [7badc73](https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/7badc7e004e288aef645404b1b09699be8b87d1e) stores missing parent txids in the `TxOrphanage` entry. Another approach could be to re-calculate the missing parents prior to sending out requests; the missing parents may change over time as well. Which approach do you prefer, and why?
09:26 < instagibbs> IIUC passing in the missing parents means you can calculate it once, then delegate handling duplications etc inside txrequest module 
09:27 < premitive2> I was a little confused about what you meant with 'the missing parent may change over time as well, although I like the approach and the fact that GetChildrenFromDifferentPeer was dropped
09:27 < glozow> instagibbs: right, seemed better to just calculate it once
09:27 < instagibbs> premitive2 parents get resolved over time, you may only have one left but list says N left
09:28 < glozow> Yeah. the main recalculation point would be if somebody sends an inv for an orphan.
09:28 < instagibbs> ah hm
09:28 < premitive2> @instagibbs Ahhh, now I understand. Makes sense, thanks!
09:30 < glozow> Ah, we should be filtering for `AlreadyHaveTx` again when we add the parents to txrequest 🤔
09:30 < instagibbs> txrequests get filtered before going out the door at GetRequestsToSend, so a request may get queued and dropped?
09:30 < glozow> instagibbs: ah yeah good point
09:31 < glozow> ok, that's not a problem then
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09:31 < instagibbs> txrequest doing some heavy lifting, you might think temp that your honest peer has more inflights but I guess that's very short lived
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09:31 < glozow> right
09:32 < glozow> I haven't thought of ways that dergoegge's approach doesn't work
09:32 < glozow> so I guess the next question is kinda moot if we do that instead
09:33 < glozow> Why might we prefer to resolve orphans with outbound peers over inbound peers?
09:33 < dergoegge> Storing the parent txids does change the memory usage assumption a bit (eyeball 2x increase?)
09:33 < glozow> dergoegge: yeah, it's extra for sure
09:33 < dergoegge> perhaps worth adjusting the comment, but otherwise not concerning
09:34 < glozow> I am wondering if we should accompany this with new memory-based orphan limits, based on the current maximum memory usage
09:34 < instagibbs> outbounds are selected by the node more directly, means it's harder to get sybil'ed by those connections
09:34 < glozow> right now the limit is really large and we probably never hit it
09:34 < marcofleon> Are outbound peers less likely to be malicious?
09:35 < marcofleon> instagibbs: +1 becuase we choose them yes
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09:35 < glozow> what instagibbs said. I'm not sure the best way to phrase this but my mental model is to just assume that all inbounds are trying to attack you
09:36 < premitive2> Malicious nodes *looking* for targets to attack will always be inbound mhm
09:36 < chinggg> make sense. I wonder where the code implement the logic of preferring outbound peers over inbound peers
09:36 < instagibbs> inbounds are very often spy services :)
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09:36 < instagibbs> outbounds generally are not, or if they are, they're doing useful things like handing you blocks and whatnot
09:36 < marcofleon> gotta be adversarial out there
09:38 < glozow> dergoegge: I don't think it's a 2x increase, but it can be large. it's a function of the tx's size. oh wow i just realized we could just store a bit vector that corresponds to its inputs.
09:38 < chinggg> oh there is a functional test `test_orphan_handling_prefer_outbound`
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09:38 < glozow> instead of a `std::vector<Txid>`
09:38 < glozow> duh *facepalm*
09:39 < monlovesmango> so with dergoegge's method, is there a way to track total orphan resolution's in flight by peer?
09:39 < glozow> monlovesmango: very good question
09:40 < glozow> we can implement this in `TxOrphanage` by storing a map of number of orphans provided by each peer
09:40 < glozow> I have this implemented and planned it for later, but maybe we bring this into the current PR
09:41 < glozow> What are the disadvantages of resolving orphans by requesting parent txids? 
09:42 < premitive2> I haven't read all of BIP331 but a fake child tx with lots of inputs might be bad
09:43 < monlovesmango> is there concern with having witness be malleable? like there could be multiple parents with same txid but different wtxid?
09:43 < marcofleon> The witness could be malleated
09:44 < chinggg> sounds like requesting parent txid will cause more attack surface
09:44 < glozow> yeah, txid-based relay sucks
09:45 < glozow> If you have multiple missing parents as well, downloading them one by one seems really inefficient as well. You'd re-evaluate the orphan over and over again (always still getting missing inputs) until the last parent gets in
09:46 < dergoegge> since we can't really cache invalidity by txid, can policy differences cause us to re-download parents many times?
09:46 < glozow> dergoegge: yeah
09:46 < dergoegge> with the PR we'd retry with all the announcers
09:47 < glozow> ah, well, we'd `ForgetTxHash` after the parent fails
09:47 < glozow> wait no, that would be by wtxid
09:47 < glozow> hah, yeah, we'd just keep downloading it
09:48 < dergoegge> should be wtxid, otherwise that'd be censorship
09:48 < glozow> yeah. if the first peer gives us a bad one, we can't just give up - that's the whole point
09:48 < glozow> sorry misspoke
09:48 < glozow> however we wouldn't re-validate the same tx, since it would be in recent rejects
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09:50 < dergoegge> hm right so only some bandwidth waste
09:50 < glozow> yes
09:50 < glozow> this is just the nature of any txid-based relay
09:51 < glozow> so that's what ancpkginfo is for - tell me the wtxids of the ancestors, and then I can figure out how to download them
09:52 < glozow> when you retry with other peers, you also first ask them for the wtxids, and only download if you think there's a chance it'll be valid
09:52 < glozow> Last question
09:52 < glozow> Commit [3e16a36](https://github.com/bitcoin-core-review-club/bitcoin/commit/3e16a36959f70da59846621f099c1f1df4a210ed) edits the 1p1c logic to no longer try packages of transactions from different peers. What was the original motivation for this section, and why is removing it ok?
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09:53 < premitive2> Parents are kept within the orphanage now so it seems like the orphan matching is no longer needed
09:54 < glozow> premitive2: no, we still do matching for 1p1c. the difference is we require the originating peer be the same
09:54 < marcofleon> It made sense before becuase we weren't keeping track of all the peers that are announcing
09:54 < monlovesmango> bc orphan tracker is systematically doing what this is attempting to opportunistically do
09:54 < marcofleon> so we would wnat to try a different peer if we had a parent that was reconsiderable?
09:55 < marcofleon> try looking for a child that is
09:55 < glozow> marcofleon: yeah, really we *only* want to try 1p1cs from the same peer
09:55 < glozow> but since we didn't remember all peers before, we had this logic just in case
09:55 < premitive2> The parent was used to find other peers from the children to request, like @monlovesmango it now can do everything it did without that code
09:56 < premitive2> to validate for a package, not req*
09:56 < glozow> we don't really need the orphan tracker for this either, it's more than `TxOrphanage` remembers more announcers
09:56 < glozow> more that*
09:58 < marcofleon> wait why do we only want it from the same peer?
09:58 < glozow> marcofleon: why would you want it from different peers?
09:58 < marcofleon> hmmm
09:59 < glozow> You could imagine that a peer can give you an infinite number of children for any given transaction. So let's not sign up to 1p1c all of them haha
09:59 < marcofleon> if we have the child from someone else and they don't have the parent yet... but we have the parent from another peer we just won't form a 1p1c package?
09:59 < glozow> but there should only be 1 honest package
09:59 < marcofleon> right yes got it
09:59 < glozow> if they have the child, they must have the parent
09:59 < glozow> otherwise how did they validate it?
10:00 < marcofleon> Yes ofc, I missed that
10:00 < glozow> that's time!
10:00 < instagibbs> good timing
10:00 < glozow> indeed!
10:00 < marcofleon> got it, thanks glozow!
10:00 < marcofleon> what a time
10:00 < chinggg> Thanks glozow and everyone!
10:00 < premitive2> Thanks again for hosting @glozow!
10:00 < dergoegge> thanks glozow!
10:00 < glozow> Thanks for doing 2 whole review clubs everybody! I feel like we had some really great discussions here
10:00 < monlovesmango> thanks glozow! 
10:00 < instagibbs> fwiw dergoegge's commit is a lot shorter 😅
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10:01 < glozow> haha I think there's a small bug but I do think I will end up taking it
10:01 < instagibbs> didn't validate correctness or anything
10:01 < dergoegge> (i'm only convinced it works because it passes the tests, there might be bugs)
10:01 < glozow> We should maybe spend some time thinking about what other parts of the orphan handling buffs we want to include in this first chunk
10:01 < glozow> #endmeeting
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19:19 -!- Topic for #bitcoin-core-pr-reviews: https://bitcoincore.reviews | meetings on the first Wednesday of each month at 17:00 UTC
19:19 -!- Topic set by glozow [sid453516@user/glozow] [Sun Jan 28 13:52:40 2024]
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 06 00:00:15 2024