--- Log opened Sat Jun 25 00:00:04 2022
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04:37 < devrandom> `DUST_RELAY_TX_FEE` is 3 sat per vb, but obviously the actual fee rates in the network can be lower than this.  how is it intended to be used?
07:06 < andytosh1> this constant originates in https://github.com/rust-bitcoin/rust-bitcoin/pull/584 ... it looks like this specific costant was not discgussed
07:07 < andytosh1> but it does appear to directly come from src/policy/policy.h in bitcoin core
07:07 < andytosh1> from Core we have the comment
07:08 < andytosh1> Min feerate for defining dust. Historically this has been based on the * minRelayTxFee, however changing the dust limit changes which transactions are * standard and should be done with care and ideally rarely. It makes sense to * only increase the dust limit after prior releases were already not creating * outputs below the new threshold
07:09 < andytosh1> ah ok, i had to read that a few times but i think i got it
07:10 < andytosh1> devrandom: the min relayfee on the network is 1 sat/vb (and has been for a million years across every version of core that had the limit) but the minfee for *dust* is deliberately much higher than that, to future-proof non-dust outputs as continuing to be non-dust
07:10 < andytosh1> the intented use is for wallets which are deciding whether to make a borderline-dust output or whether to just fold the value into fee (or another output)
07:20 < devrandom> I guess I don't understand "minfee for dust".  For me "dust" is dependent on output size, and if an output falls below that it's non-standard and not relayed, regardless of fee.
07:22 < devrandom> But sounds like I had that wrong, and txs with dust can be relayed if the fee is high enough?
07:25 < andytosh1> yes, it is dependent on output size ... this is a fee*rate*
07:25 < andytosh1> i think txes with dust *outputs* will always be relayed
07:25 < andytosh1> as long as the feerate of the tx is high enough
07:27 < andytosh1> oh, no, i'm wrong about that. interesting
07:27 < andytosh1> devrandom: i think you had it right
07:28 < andytosh1> check `IsStandardTx` in src/policy/policy.cpp where it calls IsDust (which callso GetDustThreshold which checks this constant)
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08:44 < BlueMatt[m]> honestly that constant shouldn't be exposed
08:44 < BlueMatt[m]> its not useful in any way
08:44 < BlueMatt[m]> its just a thing that's used as a part of the calculation
09:59 < devrandom> we did indeed used it by mistake... it's mentioned in https://github.com/lightning/bolts/blob/master/03-transactions.md#dust-limits, but that seems informational only
10:10 < devrandom> so yes, now that we dig into it, it does seem to be a somewhat internal constant. unless we think create users would want to recalculate the dust thresholds from the basic numbers
10:13 < BlueMatt[m]> Right…. It’s confusing, and we should just be pushing users to use our dust calculation function instead
10:18 < BlueMatt[m]> Right but we have a method for that…….
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11:15 < devrandom> (by "we" earlier, I mean the VLS project)
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--- Log closed Sun Jun 26 00:00:03 2022