--- Log opened Tue Feb 07 00:00:37 2023
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04:57 < yancy> andytoshi BlutMatt[m] ok thanks.  Also, I should have said earlier I'm asking about a crate that will be under the Rust Bitcoin org (not Rust Bitcoin itself).
04:58 < yancy> Copy paste is probably a bad example, however if I want to do without deps I'll probably be looking at the source code closely of the dep I want to do without.
05:02 < yancy> *hopfefully be under the Rust Bitcoin org.
05:34 < yancy> actually I see a number of crates under the Rust Bitcoin org that use external dependencies.  Are the considerations different for dependencies of crates under Rust Bitcoin org?
05:49 < andytoshi> the "core" rust-bitcoin crates are rust-bitcoin, rust-secp256k1 and bitcoin_hashes. those have very strong considerations.
05:50 < andytoshi> for rust-miniscript they're a little weaker ... and then i don't actually maintain any of the other ones
05:50 < andytoshi> but i don't think any of them have gratuitous dependencies
05:51 < andytoshi> just ones that, in rust-bitcoin, we'd be willing to make compromises to avoid
05:52 < yancy> Murmel for example uses Mio as a dep
05:52 < andytoshi> as a weird example though ... rust-jsonrpc has never made it into the org because i've never been happy with its dependency situation. but somehow rust-bitcoincorerpc, which depends on rust-jsonrpc, made it into the org. i don't remember how we made that decision but i don't think it was very principled :P
05:52 < andytoshi> what is murmel
05:52 < andytoshi> oh it's a node
05:53 < andytoshi> yancy: so, for non-libraries i think we don't really care so much
05:53 < andytoshi> although in general -- we don't gatekeep crates that come into the org very hard. esp ones maintained by people like stevenroose who we know well
05:54 < andytoshi> so i'd say that yeah, the dependency policy is something of a crate-by-crate basis
05:54 < andytoshi> and we're only really serious for rust-bitcoin/rust-secp/hashes
05:55 < andytoshi> yancy: and even on one of those crates ... you can go ahead and PR to add a new dependency, and argue it's case, and there's a nonzero chance you'll win
05:55 < andytoshi> not a super high chance :) but not zero
05:58 < andytoshi> i could imagine a future where we have a uniform dependency policy across the org ... but we'd need to get to a point where this policy wasn't a huge PITA to maintain (so that single-maintainer/low-volume projects could handle it) ... and where it didn't get 10x harder as soon as you need networking, 10x harder again if you need HTTP, etc
06:02 < yancy> Ok.  well I'm on the fence if I should do the work to remove deps from the coin-selection lib then.  For example I'm using thiserror by dtolnay.  Not that I couldn't do the error stuff by hand but it removes a lot of bioler plate and is nicer code in the end.
06:03 < andytoshi> ah, yeah, we won't accept thiserror
06:03 < andytoshi> because it's purely a developer time-saving device
06:03 < andytoshi> and because it generates code, which is particularly hard for us to vet
06:03 < yancy> hmm ok. well that answers my question for that one.
06:05 < yancy> I'm also using the num crate to check for overflows but I can hand roll that also witohout too much effort hopefully
06:11 < andytoshi> yeah, we're also leery of num for MSRV reasons (and because num is split into like 10 crates so it makes the dep tree look bigger ... but i think we're smarter about that now)
06:11 < andytoshi> so if it's only used for something as narrow as overflow checking, we should replace it
06:12 < yancy> ok sounds good
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--- Log closed Wed Feb 08 00:00:39 2023