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08:50 < Taek> This winter we will probably spend several hundred dollars heating out home
08:50 < Taek> If Bitcoin miners became efficient enough, people might be able to replace their heating systems with mining rigs
08:51 < Taek> all the heat that's normally an issue for data centers would be a virtue in a decentralized context
08:51 < Taek> but only in the winter
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08:58 < bitjedi> hi
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09:00  * tacotime codes by the heat of ASICs in the winter.
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09:07 < andytoshi> link to etay/sirer 2ppow? i thought their proposal was trivially non-progress-free, i don't recall it being interesting or tunable so i guess i am thinking of something else?
09:08 < andytoshi> in fact, i thought asic-faq.pdf was a perfectly good rebuttal despite having been written several months earlier :P
09:09 < tromp> http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/18/how-to-disincentivize-large-bitcoin-mining-pools/
09:11 < andytoshi> yeah, that's right... it's trivially not progress-free because there are two stages which both require work
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09:11 < andytoshi> which i read as "they have not done even basic research into how pow works" and stopped reading there, phd or no this is layman crypto
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09:17 < tromp> it's mostly progress free. way more than cuckoo cycle anyway
09:18 < tromp> after solving the 1st stage, you only do 1 signature+hash in the 2nd stage
09:20 < tromp> how would that give fast miners a disproportionate advantage?
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09:59 < andytoshi> the 2nd stage involves many hashes because you are trying to get hash(sig) to be small
09:59 < andytoshi> oh, i see, if you use a unique sig scheme then it's ok
10:02 < andytoshi> i read it as deliberately using a randomized sig scheme to do a second pow
10:03 < tromp> no; it's meant to be a single deterministic check
10:04 < andytoshi> ok, my bad, i read and dismissed the scheme too quickly
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10:15 < gmaxwell> Weird that they've still not updated their page to point out whats required to make the second a single check.
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14:10 < phantomcircuit> will a transaction which has only 1 output value 0 with op_return be considered standard?
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14:13 < gmaxwell> Yep.
14:14 < phantomcircuit> the limit is 40 bytes right?
14:14 < gmaxwell> Yep.
14:15 < gmaxwell> if you're just making a commitment, you might want to consider using the contract hash tool instead.
14:17 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, hmm interesting
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15:19 < phantomcircuit> are transaction id's reversed in rpc calls?
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15:29 < tacotime> um, depends on your implementation, but i noticed with bitcoind sometimes they were as compared to the raw tx.
15:31 < tacotime> does that have to do with the byte ordering when you push it off stack for a txin? never thought about it, but this is more #bitcoin-dev
15:31 < tacotime> ehm, that's not a script either, nevermind, it's just from a struct.
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--- Log closed Fri Nov 14 00:00:50 2014