--- Log opened Sat Jan 31 00:00:40 2015
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07:30 < earlz> So, is it possible to craft a vout that is spendable by a "password" (ie, not just a brainwallet) without revealing the password on the blockchain?
07:30 < earlz> (aside from how insecure that might be)
07:31 < belcher> maybe a p2sh where the script pushes the password onto the stack and then checks for equality? then the scriptsig has to contain the password
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07:31 < earlz> And somehow make it so that if you send two transactions, it is not possible to use the redeem script for the first transaction for the second transaction
07:32 < earlz> yea.. I know you could hash the password so it's not in plain-text.. but then if you ever use that password again it's obvious
07:32 < belcher> yeah its a one-time password
07:32 < veox> belcher: something like https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script#Transaction_puzzle ?..
07:33 < belcher> yeah i knew id read it somewhere
07:33 < veox> Uh, I mean earlz
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07:35 < earlz> yea, I mean a script that is more than one-time
07:36 < earlz> idk if it's possible.. starting to think probably not
07:36 < belcher> what are you trying to do?
07:36 < belcher> could you have a password that decrypts a key which you then use to sign
07:37 < earlz> not really trying to do anything, just  athought excercise lol
07:40 < earlz> I tend to think it's almost always more secure to make a brainwallet than to do that
07:41 < belcher> no because a brainwallet cracker can in parallel search the entire blockchain
07:41 < belcher> but with this encrypted key they need that part too
07:43 < sipa> you need a system where the verifier needs less information than the signer
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07:43 < sipa> a shared secret (aka password) does not satisfy that
07:44 < earlz> I was thinking if you could somehow access transaction id from within script, maybe that'd help.. but even then
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07:48 < earlz> What if you used a brainwallet with a "salt" of the vin txid or some such?
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12:50 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, did write down your thoughts on a pruning bitcoind?
12:50 < phantomcircuit> i think 35GB is the magic number for a bunch of vps providers
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13:17 < Eliel_> earlz: frankly, a password hashed to create a private key you can use to sign is perhaps the best way to get reusable password where the transaction doesn't reveal the password to the whole world.
13:17 < Eliel_> so, yes, that's brainwallet.
13:18 < Eliel_> of course, you don't have to use the same hashing algorithm everyone else uses. But then again, that only makes knowledge of the hash algo a part of the password.
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13:42 < sipa> phantomcircuit: just see the pruning pull request?
13:43 < sipa> afaik it's sort of ready to merge
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13:47 < phantomcircuit> sipa, there's someone on #bitcoin saying it crashed
13:48 < sipa> "it" ?
13:48 < sipa> that pr?
13:48 < sipa> report it :)
13:50 < phantomcircuit> trying to get actual details out of him...
13:51 < phantomcircuit> i think he changed the prune value and something went wrong
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14:11 < earlz> Eliel_: well, my idea is to salt the user-provided password with something
14:11 < earlz> maybe vin hash or some such
14:12 < earlz> eh, either way its just something I've been toying with. Not sure it's secure enough to trust to anything
14:12 < phantomcircuit> sipa, yeah this is the one that just removes the network node flag
14:14 < dgenr8> the ;;tblb formula sensitivity to hashrate deviation from difficulty is a bit presumptuous at long intervals
14:15 < dgenr8> theoretical expected time to start of next block interval >= i seconds is 600(math.exp(i/600)-i/600-1), which is kind of pretty
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15:34 < dgenr8> hmm.  the current "tblb" formula simplifies to 600(exp(i/600)) when ignoring hashrate deviation.  The missing -1 means it's adding one average interval at the end, which is strange
15:35 < dgenr8> a bigger problem is the whole missing -i/600 term
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15:51 < dgenr8> we've got a chicken that takes i seconds to cross the road, with poisson traffic http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/195560/probability-question-with-interarrival-times
15:51 < dgenr8> guess i'll be submitting a PR
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16:43 < moa> http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~tongbinw/bitcoinIDE/build/editor.html bitcoin script IDE tool
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17:44 < op_mul> moa: something tells me that tool is going to bloat out UTXO set somewhat.
17:44 < phantomcircuit> op_mul, that made me dizzy af
17:44 < justanotheruser> LOL
17:44 < justanotheruser> op_mul: you should try out "1 2 op_mul"
17:44 < op_mul> ._.
17:44 < op_mul> SEIOUSLY.
17:44 < justanotheruser> op_return works (in that it doesn't work)
17:44 < justanotheruser> someone is going to end up using this js in a consensus reimplementation
17:44 < kanzure> what's with the animation
17:44 < kanzure> is that really necessary?
17:44 < phantomcircuit> obviously it is
17:44 < kanzure> excellent reasoning
17:44 < justanotheruser> umm this is terrible
17:44 < justanotheruser> op_2rot treats the stack as a queue
17:44 < justanotheruser> err
17:44 < op_mul> there's more than one bug in their script execution. hope nobody elses this for realsies.
17:44 < justanotheruser>  I mean the one after that
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17:52 < justanotheruser> somehow op_pushdata1 by itself pushed 216 onto the stack
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18:11 < maaku> hrmm... disabled opcodes work
18:11 < op_mul> well. some of them.
18:11 < maaku> people are in for a surprise if they test their scripts here
18:11 < kanzure> perhaps it is a piece of public performance art
18:11 < op_mul> yep. like I said. we're in for some UTXO bloat if people try and use this for real.
18:12 < op_mul> > but it worked in the IDE
18:14 < maaku> the alt stack isn't visualized
18:15 < op_mul> as far as I know no script has ever used the alt stack
18:18 < justanotheruser> also, enter 4b into the assembly section, click the Script tab, click the assembly tab, click the Script tab
18:19 < maaku> op_mul: well jorge and i proposed uses for the alt stack
18:20 < justanotheruser> 4b assembly to Script => NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN back to assembly then back to script again is OP_2ROT OP_FALSE NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  ...
18:20 < justanotheruser> ... NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNa  NaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaNNaN
18:20 < maaku> "4b Batman!"
18:20 < op_mul> oh javascript.
18:20 < maaku> if code_separater wasn't broken you could do cool stuff with the alt stack :\
18:23 < op_mul> alas
18:23 < justanotheruser> 0 da OP_PUSHDATA4 OP_EQUALVERIFY
18:23 < justanotheruser> PASSES :D
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18:24 < op_mul> that fails for me
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18:26 < op_mul> oh no. my stack overflowed the box.
18:27 < justanotheruser> op_mul: oops, remove the verify
18:28 < op_mul> is PUSHDATA4 ever legal?
18:28 < justanotheruser> I think so, but it isn't useful.
18:28 < justanotheruser> let me check the source
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18:29 < op_mul> yeah it is legal but fairly useless.
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18:32 < op_mul> I guess we could say that PUSHDATA4 is a show of ultimate optimism
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18:39 < phantomcircuit> op_mul, heh
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19:53 < op_mul> andytoshi: re: people auditing openssl, I don't think any of this stuff gets anywhere near as many eyes on it as people would like to be thinking.
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20:00 < op_mul> somewhat similar to the bystander effect, where everybody just assumes that everybody else is auditing the code which means they don't have to. of course it's impractical for everybody to audit every bit of code that they use, though.
20:01 < maaku> op_mul: it would not be legal if bip 62 were adopted
20:01 < maaku> except for legacy transactions of course
20:01 < phantomcircuit> op_mul, virtually nobody is reviewing openssl...
20:01 < op_mul> maaku: right, thank you, I knew I'd read that somewhere.
20:01 < phantomcircuit> i bet nobody has read through the entire codebase
20:01 < phantomcircuit> like
20:01 < phantomcircuit> ever
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20:02 < op_mul> I'm sure the same holds for bitcoin core
20:02 < maaku> i'm pretty sure "open source makes all bugs shallow" has been thoroughly disproven in practice
20:06 < phantomcircuit> op_mul, i read through all of bitcoin core in like
20:06 < phantomcircuit> 2011
20:06 < phantomcircuit> my eyeballs hurt
20:07 < sipa> i am not sure i have read it all
20:07 < sipa> like the wx code :D
20:07 < op_mul> is there any easy way to get git to spit out the least changed portions of the code?
20:08 < sipa> git blame + some processing
20:08  * op_mul nods
20:09 < phantomcircuit> sipa, i read the wx part but obviously not the wx lib part
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20:09 < phantomcircuit> note that is like
20:09 < phantomcircuit> 99% useless
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20:11 < op_mul> maybe that needs to be a hackathon. big barrel of port, and have a bunch of people sit and read through the code line by line.
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20:11 < phantomcircuit> barrel
20:11 < phantomcircuit> lol
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21:17 < TopHatCat> Huh? You can have .ninja as a TLD now?
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