--- Log opened Fri Feb 06 00:00:01 2015
--- Day changed Fri Feb 06 2015
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00:24 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, that entire thing is pretty bad
00:25 < phantomcircuit> "miners compare their respective sizes in terms of number of blocks"
00:25 < phantomcircuit> sigh
00:28 < gmaxwell> phantomcircuit: can just be a harmless simplification; they don't mention retargeting. It's not unreasonable to analyize a toy version of the protocol without it.
00:30 < phantomcircuit> i guess
00:32 < phantomcircuit> pg 11 they propose an attacker splits the network to gain an advantage over honest miners
00:32 < phantomcircuit> except that doesn't work
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00:35 < gmaxwell> it's at least not clear to me what they're discussing, e.g. you can produce two blocks at equal height and simultaniously announce to slow the growth of the longest chain, but I was never able to figure out a strategy to make this win assuming the attacker had a minority hashpower and propagation was insignificant.
00:39 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, they've got lots of greek letters though so clearly it's interesting
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06:26 < tromp__>    the first author is a former colleague and co-author of mine.
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06:43 < tromp__> amusing article at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/
06:45 < tromp__> choice quote "But among aficionados, there is wide consensus that the weaknesses in Bitcoin are fatal and unfixable." :)
06:45 < nsh> lol
06:57 < justanotheruser> you can tell its going to be a good article when they use crypto as a short version of cryptocurrency
06:58 < nsh> the observer is theoretically a grown-up publication :/
07:00 < justanotheruser> Somehow Ripple is supposed to be theft-free? Bitcoins fatal flaw is the MtGox heist after all.
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07:17 < fluffypony> justanotheruser: I can confirm that, having met with the President of Bitcoin and all that
07:18  * nsh smiles
07:18 < helo> that article is the worst i can recall ever reading
07:19 < kanzure> "CEO of Ethereum and a crypto expert universally regarded as a straight shooter
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07:19 < kanzure> Read more at http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/#ixzz3QyjSCXdm
07:19 < kanzure> paste spam! well now i can't read this in good conscience.
07:19 < helo> i'd expect an artile like that about satoshi if he was ever identified, but not this guy
07:20 < helo> going deeply into his family history, relationships, personal life, etc
07:23 < fluffypony> lol
07:23 < fluffypony> "crypto expert"
07:23 < fluffypony> that's like this choice quote I came across today: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=568166.msg10364402#msg10364402
07:24 < fluffypony> "My opinion wont mean as much as respected German cryptographer Isidor Zeuner"
07:24 < fluffypony> I was like "who?"
07:25 < justanotheruser> helo: Is it really?
07:25 < helo> it is terrible. the author must have a lot of xrp
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07:26 < kanzure> well anyway, it's not -wizard territory :p
07:27 < kanzure> -wizards
07:27 < justanotheruser> I think the problem is that many types of software don't have the same constraints as Bitcoin. You can't just write a few hundred lines of code and remove the mining "problem" or making the blockchain unnecessary
07:28 < kanzure> you can definitely do that if you do not care about mission integrity
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07:31 < fluffypony> oh kanzure, thanks for your DBC python library, stumbled across it today and it made a side project a whole lot easier
07:32 < kanzure> that may not have been me
07:32 < kanzure> oh weird it was
07:34 < fluffypony> lol
07:34 < fluffypony> at least you remember what you wrote!
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13:20 < smooth> the observer is theoretically a grown-up publication <= Gell-Mann amnesia
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19:00 < SubCreative> <3
19:00 < SubCreative> you wizards
19:03 < azariah> How hard is it, given a msg M to sign and a known pubkey P, brute force a signature, that when one runs EC pubkey recover on will give P?
19:03 < sipa> azariah: as hard as finding the private key for P
19:04 < sipa> actually, square as hard
19:04 < sipa> as you can't use any of the O(sqrt) scaling algorithms
19:06 < azariah> makes sense. cool, thanks!
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20:12 < roconnor> sipa: surely it is no harder than finding the private key for P.
20:13 < roconnor> since finding the private key will solve the problem.
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20:29 < sipa> roconnor: that is not "_brute forcing the signature such that"
20:30 < sipa> roconnor: the algorithms was constrained, not just the problem :)
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20:36 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, i wonder how much jed paid mr craig for that article
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20:44 < kanzure> phantomcircuit: er, does not seem like a favorable article to any of them
20:45 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, 99% of people dont read more than the first sentence
20:45 < phantomcircuit> which is
20:45 < phantomcircuit> "Universally regarded as a ‘genius’ even by his detractors"
20:46 < kanzure> that's just poor reporting. you can't blame journalists, they don't know what's going on.
20:46 < kanzure> why would anyone trust whether a journalist can determine expertise much less genius?
20:47 < justanotheruser> kanzure: because they themselves don't have the bandwidth to determine the validity of all factoids and short news articles they read.
20:47 < kanzure> that's only further supporting proof that they shouldn't think journos are good at that
20:48 < kanzure> anyway this is not wizard territory
20:49 < kanzure> ("i don't have the bandwidth to make good judgements, therefore instead of giving up on making good judgements i should pick the worst possible implementation instead hooray")
20:50 < kanzure> ((nobody seriously thinks that way))
20:51 < justanotheruser> I'm not saying it's a good idea to trust a journalist, just that people tend to trust the news even when they're idiots because reading the article takes 1/1000th the time it takes to determine the validity of Ripple
20:51 < phantomcircuit> kanzure, lol there's a picture with a bunch of them
20:51 < phantomcircuit> all the white guys are identified by name
20:52 < phantomcircuit> the only black guy is listed as "and some other guy"
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22:15 < kanzure> http://forlackofabettercomic.com/img/comic/85.png
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