--- Log opened Tue Mar 31 00:00:38 2015 00:01 -!- amincd [1710a2c6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.23.16.162.198] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02 < fluffypony> midnightmagic: agreed, I much prefer the ones where you slide it in halfway and then pull it out once it's read the stripe/chip 00:03 -!- Dr-G2 [~Dr-G@xd9bf72dc.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:03 -!- Dr-G [~Dr-G@unaffiliated/dr-g] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:03 -!- xenog [~xenog@c-50-161-2-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:04 -!- xenog [~xenog@c-50-161-2-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:13 -!- terpo [~terpo@81-64-36-59.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:17 -!- phiche1 [~Adium@193.89.191.209] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:17 -!- phiche 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[~Dr-G@x4d08d2d1.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:41 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-180-192-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@87-97-119-34.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:46 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:46 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:52 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:57 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@87-97-119-34.pool.invitel.hu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:04 -!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05 -!- andy-logbot [~bitcoin--@wpsoftware.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:05 * andy-logbot is logging 01:08 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:08 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:08 -!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:18 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:19 -!- iddo [~idddo@unaffiliated/iddo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:20 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23 < phantomcircuit> walk away, wait for 1 confirmation, go back, login, print slip, take slip to till, get cash 01:23 < phantomcircuit> lold 01:40 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40 -!- Pasha [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:42 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:c593:8c57:1300:6a98] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:42 < fluffypony> phantomcircuit: ikr 01:45 -!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:47 -!- 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[~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:03 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Quit: b_lumenkraft] 12:04 -!- Starduster_ [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:04 -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:05 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:08 -!- xenog [~xenog@2602:30a:2ea0:28e0:84c9:2ab4:8cb7:775b] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:19 -!- TRSullivan [~TRSulliva@d154-20-28-197.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:20 -!- jhogan42 [~textual@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:22 -!- jhogan42 [~textual@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:22 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:24 -!- jhogan42 [~textual@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:33 -!- koshii [~0@180.183.147.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:34 < phantomcircuit> user7779078, someone ddos attacked cloudhashing.com 12:34 < phantomcircuit> but that isn't the pool 12:34 < phantomcircuit> so it was just amusing 12:35 -!- koshii [~0@180.183.147.12] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:37 < jgarzik> DDoS attacks have been ongoing for months, and ramped up in Nov 2014 12:39 -!- Dwaddle [~0x1F@5ED6BCD0.cm-7-7c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:46 < fluffypony> I wonder if this is the prisoner's dilemma that's been theorised 12:50 -!- orik [~orik@50.34.199.60] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 -!- RoboTedd_ [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:57 -!- jhogan42 [~textual@c-67-169-168-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:58 -!- Priidu [~Priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:58 -!- TRSullivan [~TRSulliva@d154-20-28-197.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:58 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:59 -!- RoboTedd_ [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:04 -!- deepcore [~deepcore@2a01:79d:469e:ed94:c23f:d5ff:fe65:20c5] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:04 -!- phiche [~Adium@86.58.254.51] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:05 -!- deepcore [~deepcore@2a01:79d:469e:ed94:c23f:d5ff:fe65:20c5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:06 -!- face [~face@mail.hmel.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:06 < user7779078> phantomcircuit: interesting, thanks. 13:07 < hearn> fluffypony: i think it's just "extortion over the internet with anonymous e-cash is super easy" 13:07 < fluffypony> oh yes, I remember now - they asked for BTC to stop the DDoS 13:07 < fluffypony> much less interesting than miner's dilemma 13:08 -!- face [~face@mail.hmel.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- crescendo [~mozart@173.203.100.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12 < Taek> I'm assuming the miner's dilemma is resources spent on DDOS'ing competition will eliminate enough hashrate to pay for themselves? 13:12 < fluffypony> Taek: yes 13:12 -!- deepcore [~deepcore@2a01:79d:469e:ed94:c23f:d5ff:fe65:20c5] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:13 -!- deepcore [~deepcore@2a01:79d:469e:ed94:c23f:d5ff:fe65:20c5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:13 -!- cheaonic2 [~cheaonic@2607:fb90:1741:4aab:ad27:3dfc:4cb6:1f93] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:13 < fluffypony> the thing is that the cost of those resources differ from adversarial pool to adversarial pool 13:14 < fluffypony> (all hypothetical, of course) 13:14 < fluffypony> and sometimes the imbalance in this cost leads to consequences that could be interesting 13:14 -!- TRSullivan [~TRSulliva@d154-20-28-197.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:15 < fluffypony> eg. small pool with a very small % in hash, but some connection to a large botnet, decides to take on large pool with a larger % in hash 13:15 < user7779078> phantomcircuit: is there an announcement to look at? 13:15 < phantomcircuit> user7779078, no 13:15 < user7779078> cheers 13:17 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.249] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:17 -!- cheaonic [~cheaonic@cpe-71-79-147-7.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:22 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.249] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:29 -!- lclc [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-zyhsnssuxgcaumdj] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32 -!- TRSullivan [~TRSulliva@d154-20-28-197.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:36 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-ztpyiqaoxztqxrfq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:38 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:f571:cb48:e994:e828] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:39 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:40 -!- Pasha [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:44 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:45 -!- user7779078 [~user77790@ool-4a5987f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 13:48 -!- Pasha is now known as Cory 13:50 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.249] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:51 -!- ebfull [~ebfull@c-76-120-40-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:56 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.19.249] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:01 -!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@87.97.90.123.pool.invitel.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:04 -!- koshii [~0@180.183.147.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:05 -!- koshii [~0@180.183.147.12] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:07 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:08 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@239-196-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09 -!- ebfull [~ebfull@c-76-120-40-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:09 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:11 -!- cheaonic2 [~cheaonic@2607:fb90:1741:4aab:ad27:3dfc:4cb6:1f93] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:17 -!- cheaonic2 [~cheaonic@cpe-71-79-147-7.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:20 -!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:9825:803f:91ae:49d1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:21 -!- prodatalab_ [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:9825:803f:91ae:49d1] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@218.sub-70-193-64.myvzw.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:25 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:27 -!- zooko [~user@2600:1010:b01d:e342:c0ed:92be:19ab:60f7] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:27 < Taek> I made a go library for merkle trees: https://github.com/NebulousLabs/merkletree 14:27 -!- prodatalab [~prodatala@2602:304:ab2c:9739:c1c2:1dfc:6639:955f] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:27 < Taek> afaik, it's the only go library that you can use to build and verify proofs that an element is in the tree 14:29 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:c593:8c57:1300:6a98] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:30 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:35 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:38 < amiller> Taek, petertodd has such a library 14:38 < amiller> i think maaku does too 14:39 < Taek> in go? 14:39 < amiller> ohhhh 14:39 < amiller> i read that as 14:39 < amiller> "go to" library like..... "good, rleiable" library... sorry 14:39 -!- phiche [~Adium@86.58.254.51] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39 < amiller> yeah good job. it would be cool if it were protocol-compatible with one of the others rather than its own entire data protocol though 14:41 < Taek> I thought about that. I didn't know if there was a standard to pick. I didn't want to use Bitcoin's version because there's a problem with doubling the last element 14:44 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@2601:9:3483:2400:f571:cb48:e994:e828] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-180-192-179.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:50 < gmaxwell> Taek: should have used the certificate transparency spec. 14:52 -!- DoctorBTC [~DoctorBTC@unaffiliated/doctorbtc] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Leaving"] 14:55 < Taek> "Note that the hash calculations for leaves and nodes differ. This domain separation is required to give second preimage resistance." Sorry if this is OT, but can someone explain this to me? 14:57 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:58 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59 < Taek> it looks like my implementation only varies from the spec in a few minor places. I can probably make it compatible without a ton of effort 14:59 < fluffypony> lol amiller 14:59 < fluffypony> it really is the worst name for a language 15:00 < adam3us2> well i guess prevent people from pretending that a leaf is a node or vice-versa by tricking a verifier into misinterpreting 15:00 < fluffypony> there have been plenty of times when I'm searching for stuff and I get all sorts of random results, I find you have to search for "golang X" instead of "go X" 15:00 < fluffypony> especially when you want to use Go to interact with the Thunderbird client... 15:10 -!- zooko` [~user@c-69-181-35-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:10 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11 -!- sneak [~sneak@unaffiliated/sneak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:11 -!- zooko [~user@2600:1010:b01d:e342:c0ed:92be:19ab:60f7] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:14 -!- maraoz [~maraoz@43-161-16-190.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@78.11.179.104] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:17 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:19 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@78.11.179.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:22 -!- DrGrid [b2c5e2a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.197.226.166] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 15:23 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:23 -!- DrGrid [b2c5e2a6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.178.197.226.166] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:29 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:34 -!- adam3us2 [~Adium@host-92-19-88-129.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:40 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@218.sub-70-193-64.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47 -!- afk11 [~thomas@89.100.72.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:56 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@2600:1005:b11f:228e:cd38:a9c7:84d9:2be1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:58 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:cff8:1580:9d33:6ca:adad:c875] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:00 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:06 -!- gonedrk [~gonedrk@d40a6497.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09 -!- gonedrk [~gonedrk@d40a6497.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:14 -!- StephenM347 [~stephenm3@static-64-223-246-218.port.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [] 16:15 -!- OneNomos [~OneNomos@2600:1005:b11f:228e:cd38:a9c7:84d9:2be1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16 -!- orik [~orik@50.34.199.60] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:40 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:40 -!- davispuh [~quassel@212.93.100.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:49 -!- fanquake_ [~anonymous@unaffiliated/fanquake] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:50 -!- fanquake [~anonymous@unaffiliated/fanquake] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:50 -!- fanquake_ is now known as fanquake 20:53 -!- pgokeeffe [~pgokeeffe@101.165.93.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:06 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:06 -!- orik_ [~orik@50-46-132-219.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:06 < Taek> amiller, gmaxwell: merkletree library now matches what is outlined in the 'Certificate Transparency' spec 21:07 < petertodd> Taek: re: domain separation, I posted a few weeks ago here how you can nearly make a blocksize increase be a softfork, because you can construct a transaction that looks like an inner node 21:07 < petertodd> Taek: however... you have to brute force something like ~48-64 bits to pull that off, soo... not terribly practical :) 21:08 -!- orik_ is now known as orik 21:08 < Taek> even 64 bits isn't that bad with today's ASICs, assuming only the miner needs to brute force it 21:09 < petertodd> Taek: right, so you've implemented a merkle mountain range :) one interesting thing there is ask yourself if you're 100% convinced that you can prove everything you might want to prove easily in a context independent way; see my mmr implementation here: https://github.com/proofchains/python-proofmarshal/blob/master/proofmarshal/mmr.py 21:09 < petertodd> Taek: yeah, OTOH, would make testing things in testnet a bitch :) 21:10 < Taek> oh right lol 21:10 < petertodd> Taek: oh, actually, I'll bet you the birthday problem might help... I was a bit too drunk to think of it when I wrote it up in #bitcoin-wizards :P 21:12 < Taek> are the logs the only place you've written about it? 21:12 < petertodd> Taek: yup! seriously, IIRC I'd just gotten home from a bar with friends :) 21:13 < petertodd> Taek: it's a seriously, seriously ugly hack though, lets be honest... 21:15 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:15 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:20 -!- tcrypt [~tylersmit@173.247.206.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:24 -!- pollux-bts [uid52270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qkwqhwmnggpfjzyg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:30 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@81.214.75.191] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:37 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@81.214.75.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:37 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:39 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@chello084114181075.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:40 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@chello084114181075.1.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Changing host] 21:40 -!- cbeams [~cbeams@unaffiliated/cbeams] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:41 -!- aakselrod [~kvirc@pool-96-253-110-12.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:43 -!- cheaonic2 [~cheaonic@cpe-71-79-147-7.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - 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