--- Log opened Sat May 02 00:00:46 2015
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01:05  * andy-logbot is logging
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02:04 < nsh> [O/T: anyone know a tool to visualize traceroute/BGP data? ie, show routes on a geographical and/or logical (autonomous subsystem) map]
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12:19 < nsh> Brilliant article on distributed systems - "There is No Now" - @justinsheehy https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=2745385 (@mjpt777, retweeted by @DealWaeIt)
12:23 < jgarzik> +1
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18:25 < amiller> my favorite research project these days is trying to figure out how to model bitcoin and smart contracts using the "universal composability" framework
18:26 < amiller> there's a really pleasing kind of abstract structure of using this framework, that's basically independent of the actual details of the "cryptography"
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18:27 < amiller> by "details of the cryptography", i mean things like elliptic curves, rsa groups, lattices, all the algebra and construction of things from hard math problems
18:30 < amiller> in a nutshell, this framework is about giving "specifications" for your cryptocurrency protocols in a simple and useful way
18:31 < amiller> and by useful i really mean "composable"... essentially this says that the "specification" serves a dual purpose, it acts as a reference for understanding what the protocol is supposed to do, like it should be easy to look at the specification and figure out just what it assumed, just what information is available to attackers, etc.
18:32 < amiller> the second purpose of the "specification" is to act like an api interface, it describes how you can use protocols (and crypto gadgets like signatures, encryptions) to build something else
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18:35 < amiller> here's the main Universal Composability framework paper by the way https://eprint.iacr.org/2000/067 if anyone's following along!
18:35 < amiller> but it's kind of dense and inscrutable, a bit like trying to read the ethereum yellowpaper without sunglasses
18:37 < amiller> http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-897-selected-topics-in-cryptography-spring-2004/lecture-notes/ there's actually an entire Open Courseware course about it from that author
18:44 < amiller> one of the things i want to show is that F_Bitcoin can be realized from F_BulletinBoard... these are two specifications, i can actually just program them. F_BulletinBoard is basically a model of everything we like about the general data propagation and sequencing that bitcoin gives.. it's basically a model of proof-of-publication. F_Bitcoin is basically that, plus, a transaction graph
18:49 < amiller> it should be really clear how to prove things about embedded consensus then too, and smart contract programming... anything built on top of a blockchain
18:51 < amiller> ideally id be able to prove things about how to *realize* a blockchain from economic assumptions, or proof of stake, or anything else... i'm interested in that but not sure how to do it. But before that, the real inspiration for starting with this framework is that it should be good for using newfangled crypto primitives *easily* and *correctly*.
18:52 < amiller> SNARKs, ring signatures, hashlock time delay things
18:52 < amiller> multiparty computing
18:54 < amiller> because at least in the crypto world, this security framework is considered the gold standard, so there are UC definitions proven for most/many of them.
18:55 < gmaxwell> I'm not convinced that the UC framework is useful. It may just be that its too too inscrutable for me.
18:56 < gmaxwell> E.g. do the properties it allows you to reason about may to security criteria that matter, or help lay bare assumptions that ought to be considered?  I looked before because I ran into some UC papers and couldn't make much sense of it. ... Are there any examples where someone went back and used that framework to show a known broken thing to be broken?
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18:57 < amiller> iddo and ranjit came very close to using it in their bitcoin lottery paper
18:58 < amiller> they used essentially the characteristic parts of that framework but with some simplifications
18:58 < amiller> well, the motivation for it is that there are a lot of interactive protocols that are actually unsafe when they are run concurrently
18:59 < amiller> this really just generalizes simulator proofs which are for sure the best way to define zero knowledge
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19:01 < amiller> it could be used to show that a protocol isn't vulnerable to replay attacks
19:04 < amiller> there is lots of related work on showing how to other things we'd want to model neatly fit in, like some basic rationality assumptions and things like forward secrecy
19:05 < amiller> the most bewildering thing about it to me is how much "trusted setup" seems inherently interwoven in the whole approach though
19:10 < amiller> there are these transformations that are weird because they involve making a protocol "safer" against attacks by building more stuff into the trusted setup
19:11 < amiller> after all, the trusted-setup basically requires you anyway to do some kind of a multi party computation, and hope that at least one of them erases their ram afterwards.
19:11 < amiller> so, why not have them generate some keypairs and stuff while they're at it, then delete those/
19:16 < amiller> im trying to figure out how to articulate this... there's a really clever transformation that involves using signatures and encryption using keys that were destroyed in the trusted setup anyway
19:16 < amiller> like, you publish a snark proof along with an encryption of your secrets to a keypair that was destroyed in the fire hundreds of years ago
19:17 < amiller> to a less more religious person it would seem like a kind of prayer!
19:18 < amiller> or, you build in a little clause that says you can spend these coins if you're the rightful owner *or* if you know satoshi's public key, which was destroyed in the fire
19:18 < amiller> s/satoshi's public key/satoshi's private key/
19:19 < amiller> you can combine these things to have sort of a more secure snark.
19:19 < amiller> but i can't really explain what an *attack* would look like if you don't do these things
19:21 < amiller> it seems a little mad, make a protocol more secure against attacks tomorrow by making it fail even more catastrophically if the setup goes wrong
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