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ZZZzzz…] 10:50 -!- temujin [2679a51e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.165.30] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:53 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-zbrqcjlynktrhkeh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-iwqvyihdgemkswus] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:00 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:02 -!- Artimage [d88b8b32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.216.139.139.50] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 11:02 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- NewLiberty__ is now known as NewLiberty 11:12 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ] 11:21 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:25 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:26 -!- antanst [~Adium@adsl-4.109.242.87.tellas.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:32 -!- Guest96318 [~jae@c-50-185-138-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:46 -!- jae [~jae@2601:9:7b80:a7b:e530:364f:6ff5:2914] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47 -!- jae is now known as Guest2268 11:47 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@176.92.30.167] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:50 -!- lclc_ [~lucas@unaffiliated/lclc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:52 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 12:02 -!- Artimage [d88b8b32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.216.139.139.50] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:05 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:11 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:13 -!- wizkid057 [wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18 -!- wizkid057 [wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:20 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 12:21 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:24 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:26 -!- helo is now known as daaaang 12:26 -!- daaaang is now known as helo 12:26 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:27 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- GAit [~lnahum@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:31 -!- NewLiberty__ [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:33 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@176.92.30.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:33 -!- gavinandresen [~gavin@unaffiliated/gavinandresen] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 12:34 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:36 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 12:37 -!- NewLiberty__ [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:40 < amiller> yall seen Trinocchio? http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/480.pdf 12:40 < fluffypony> the Disney film? 12:40 * fluffypony jests 12:40 < amiller> its now safe to outsource your snark proofs to k/n servers 12:41 < amiller> they can produce snark proofs for you without actually having to know your secrets (unless more than k of them collude or whatever) 12:41 < fluffypony> ooooh I like this 12:42 < amiller> and it doesn't require a change to the underlying pinocchio protocol so even if they all cheat, then your secrets are stolen but at least the rest of whatever the system relying on the snark proofs (e.g. zerocash) isn't compromised 12:42 < fluffypony> yeah 12:42 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:47 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:47 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:57 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00 -!- nivah [~linker@42.117.30.178] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:10 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@99-48-178-219.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:37 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.214] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:41 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:45 < gmaxwell> amiller: not compatible with the latest SNARK papers that use the recursive construction to get perfectly linear scaling, alas. 13:45 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:45 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:46 -!- rubensayshi [~ruben@92-108-62-198.dynamic.upc.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50 < Luke-Jr> amiller: is there a library that can be used for this purpose yet? ie, something I can throw in BFGMiner 13:50 < Luke-Jr> ie, something that doesn't require the executor to compile and run potentially malicious code 13:51 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:54 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 13:56 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec34362.skybroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:56 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@5ec34362.skybroadband.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:56 -!- belcher [~belcher-s@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:59 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:59 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:00 -!- shesek [~shesek@87.68.152.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:00 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@cpe-98-157-219-44.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:03 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@173-165-135-246-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:05 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@178.162.199.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:12 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:12 -!- antanst [~Adium@adsl-4.109.242.87.tellas.gr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 14:19 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:21 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-217-16-2.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:28 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 14:32 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:34 < andytoshi> maaku: gmaxwell: re my argument about impossibility of untrusted obfuscation, it is at https://www.wpsoftware.net/andrew/oldblog/?post=impossible-crs 14:35 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35 < andytoshi> the argument was that you can't get rid of trusted setup for all systems (in particular this timelock scheme that i hand-wavily defined using obfuscation) 14:35 < andytoshi> but it doesn't argue that the obfuscation primitive itself requires a trusted setup 14:36 < andytoshi> (i feel like i did argue this somewhere, but didn't write it up, and don't recall how it went .. maybe i told it to gmaxwell here or offline and he remembers enough to prompt me?) 14:36 < gmaxwell> I think you did. 14:37 -!- dc17523be3 [unknown@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-iwqvyihdgemkswus] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:38 -!- dc17523be3 [~unknown@193.138.219.233] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:39 < andytoshi> i have argued that both obfuscation and snarks require multilinear maps, and that one went "matiyasevich's theorem says the computable subsets of NN are exactly the diophantine ones, therefore "cryptographically secure general computation" is as hard as "simultaneously cryptographically secure ring operations" for any definition of "cryptographically secure" 14:40 < andytoshi> but i am optimistic (though not very) that there will be some breakthrough in lattice crypto that allows efficient oblivious multiplication and addition without the trusted setup that graded encoded schemes do (graded encoded schemes are used in place of multilinear maps since there are no candidates for "pure" multilinear maps) 14:43 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:43 -!- felipelalli [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/felipelalli] has quit [Quit: felipelalli] 14:46 -!- felipelalli [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/felipelalli] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:46 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:51 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@178.162.199.90] has quit [Quit: quitquitquit] 14:58 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@178.162.199.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:59 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@178.162.199.90] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:08 -!- Guest2268 [~jae@2601:9:7b80:a7b:e530:364f:6ff5:2914] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 15:19 -!- dEBRUYNE__ is now known as dEBRUYNE 15:21 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@adsl-ull-164-108.42-151.net24.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:23 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@cpe-69-23-213-3.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:25 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26 -!- PRab_ [~chatzilla@2601:4:4502:dc5f:e4ce:4e76:987b:e041] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@2601:4:4502:dc5f:e4ce:4e76:987b:e041] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:26 -!- PRab_ is now known as PRab 15:32 -!- hearn [~mike@84-75-197-78.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:32 -!- adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: Quit message adspace for sale! half price! offers by PM only] 15:34 -!- felipelalli [~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/felipelalli] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:38 -!- go1111111 [~go1111111@162.244.138.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:44 -!- daira2 [~daira@149.254.183.29] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:45 -!- daira1 [~daira@149.254.181.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:47 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:48 -!- Artimage [d88b8b32@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.216.139.139.50] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 15:48 < amiller> gmaxwell, actually i don't see any obstacle to using it recursively 15:50 -!- o84wb76g [~086f7g5hi@188.25.34.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:50 -!- o84wb76g [~086f7g5hi@188.25.34.122] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51 -!- jae [~jae@c-50-185-138-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:51 -!- o84wb76g [~086f7g5hi@188.25.34.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:51 -!- jae is now known as Guest3385 15:52 -!- go1111111 [~go1111111@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/go1111111] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:52 -!- yr4xd7cfy [~086f7g5hi@188.25.39.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:53 < gmaxwell> amiller: you fully seralize. 15:54 < gmaxwell> amiller: e.g. yea, sure you could distribute each step but then you need a full RTT per machine instruction and a full resharing and such, and so what did the delegation accomplish? 15:55 < amiller> i dunno, at the output of one round of this, each server gets a secret share of the resulting proof 15:55 < amiller> so i dont see why you can't use those shares of the resulting proof as an input to a subsequent round, which involves computing on that proof 15:56 -!- c0rw|away is now known as c0rw|zZz 15:57 < gmaxwell> you can but that doesn't sound useful as the users will end up having to do a communication round trip and resharing for every single tinyram instruction. 15:58 < amiller> i don't see where the users round trip came in 15:58 -!- temujin [2679a51e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.165.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:58 < amiller> user just provide some initial secret shares of the input, that's all 15:59 < amiller> the servers can compute function after function after function, each time receiving shares of the output 16:01 < amiller> the user doesn't even have to be there in the first place 16:02 < amiller> the user could distribute the shares of the private key to the servers at the very beginning 16:02 < amiller> and if k/n of the servers want to do something, anything, with that key, they can do so 16:04 < gmaxwell> not seeing how this works, the recursive function requires you verify a completed proof (with a different group) inside a proof. You can't verify a share. You can't update the hashtree over memory with just shares. 16:04 < gmaxwell> I'm sure (due to the existance of MPC generally) that its fundimentally possible, but I don't see how the efficient trick there would work. 16:05 < amiller> it's totally possible i'm misinterpreting some limitation of this, i'm not reading it at any close level at this point... 16:05 < amiller> i think you could update the hashtree over the memory using just the shares using generic MPC 16:05 < amiller> and that's fine, generic MPC isn't perfect but it's within the range of powerful servers 16:06 < gmaxwell> It's not clear to me that its actually "within the range of powerful servers", at least for actively secure MPC. 16:06 < amiller> you only need to use the 'efficient trick' to operate on the snarks 16:08 < amiller> anyway i dont think its necessary to bring hashtrees into this either, i think i like geppetto's approach better (but i also want to stay out of the 'snark wars' as much as possible) 16:17 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:22 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:24 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:24 -!- d1ggy_ [~d1ggy@dslb-088-070-184-210.088.070.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30 -!- a5m0_ is now known as a5m0 16:31 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:32 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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seconds] 17:31 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.214] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:36 -!- spinza [~spin@197.89.10.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:39 -!- tcrypt [~tylersmit@c-67-169-17-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:47 -!- Zooko-phone [~androirc@2600:100e:b01c:597c:1409:6365:75dc:334c] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:52 -!- DrWat [DrWat@186-107-107-227.baf.movistar.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:53 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE687f74122463-CM84948c2e0610.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:53 -!- DrWatto [DrWat@186-106-213-36.baf.movistar.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:54 -!- gmaxwell [greg@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:54 -!- gmaxwell is now known as Guest17871 17:55 -!- Guest17871 [greg@mf4-xiph.osuosl.org] has quit [Changing host] 17:55 -!- Guest17871 [greg@wikimedia/KatWalsh/x-0001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:55 -!- Guest17871 is now known as gmaxwell 18:06 -!- Relos [~Relos@unaffiliated/relos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10 -!- Guest3385 [~jae@c-50-185-138-22.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: GGuyZ] 18:11 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@c-50-177-80-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:24 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:27 < iddo> andytoshi: i didn't understand your link above, you don't need obfuscation for timelock encryption, just witness encryption (and Bitcoin) 18:31 < iddo> andytoshi: why you say that we don't know parts of future blocks? we do know, that blockhash note to self: my argument about trusted setup being required had something to do with definition of simulation security, i think 20:56 < andytoshi> iddo: oh, that's a good point re witness encryption, i used timelock encryption because that's what i was trying to build when i encountered the "result" typed up 20:56 < andytoshi> re your second point, i need to think about that, i had considered it but for some reason did not think it affected my result 20:59 < andytoshi> iddo: i think: in the random oracle model, `blockhash < target` implies that the blockhash is uniformly random in [0, target] which is still a large space, so "no information about the blockhash" is still a reasonable way to describe the state of affairs 21:00 < andytoshi> oh, i see, witness encryption works despite this 21:00 < andytoshi> weeeird 21:01 < andytoshi> i guess, modulo the existence of secure witness encryption, i'm wrong then :) 21:01 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@c-24-22-67-17.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:02 -!- aa_ [b16ac72a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.106.199.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:03 -!- aa_ [b16ac72a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.106.199.42] has quit [Client Quit] 21:10 -!- hulkhogan_ [WW@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-vmbzsvyogrczrtbc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:12 -!- 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seconds] 22:22 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:22 -!- koshii [~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:24 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:27 -!- Bosnia [~bosma@S01067cb21bda6531.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:27 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:28 -!- Artimage [6c36a43d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.54.164.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:29 -!- nivah [~linker@42.117.30.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:42 -!- Artimage [6c36a43d@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.108.54.164.61] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:43 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:47 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:48 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:48 -!- Mably [~Mably@unaffiliated/mably] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:50 -!- nivah [~linker@115.79.43.208] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:09 -!- BallsMahoney [~BallsMaho@162.216.46.59] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:12 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:15 < Taek> apparently a think tank today hypothesized that one day Bitcoin mining could be consuming 60+% of all of the world's total energy 23:15 < Taek> this would make for some interesting security conditions, as I think it's reasonable to assume that 1 entity would control more than 30% of the world's total energy 23:16 < Taek> economies of scale start to fall apart as you grow to such an extreme percentage of all of the resources available 23:16 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:16 < Taek> s/would control/would NOT control/ 23:17 < Taek> furthermore, dark hashing power also becomes less of a concern, because it's unlikely that someone has so much energy available but isn't putting it to use 23:17 < Taek> if they are putting it to use, it would necessarily need to fit inside of the remaining 40% of the world's available energy 23:17 -!- d1ggy [~d1ggy@dslb-188-108-089-227.188.108.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:18 < Taek> and thus isn't enough to spring a surprise 51% attack unless they also controll more than 30% of the Bitcoin hashing power 23:18 < amiller> Taek, link? 23:18 < Taek> you do still need to be paranoid about bursty-hashing schemes, and you need to be concerned about technological advances that make hashing more energy efficient 23:20 < amiller> i like comparing bitcoin miner spending to spending on "defense" and militaries, or maybe physical security more generally 23:20 < amiller> obviously if a society spends all of its resources on defense, there's not much else left to defend in the first place 23:20 < Taek> http://www.coinfox.info/news/2113-environmentalists-bitcoin-mining-might-eventually-consume-60-of-global-electricity-supply 23:20 < Taek> .title 23:20 < yoleaux> Environmentalists: bitcoin mining might eventually consume 60% of global electricity supply | Coinfox 23:21 < Taek> I think the idea of spending 60% of available energy on mining is completely absurd and very unlikely to happen 23:21 < Taek> but it was fun to think about how the economic security assumptions changed at that scale 23:21 < amiller> it would look pretty insane if 60% of the world's energy expenditure were spent on military too 23:22 < amiller> "There are also hopes that the efficiency of bitcoin mining will grow so the electricity consumption and CO2 emission would decrease." this is meaningless too 23:26 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:28 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-185-201-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35 < jcorgan> click-bait as a journalistic fitness function has really skewed the shitty end of distribution 23:37 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@gut75-6-88-174-43-212.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:43 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:43 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:43 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:44 -!- wallet42 [~wallet42@85.100.40.253] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:45 -!- jmcn [~jamie@2.24.158.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:46 -!- jmcn [~jamie@2.24.158.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:51 -!- yr4xd7cfy [~086f7g5hi@188.25.35.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:52 -!- Transisto2 [~Trans@modemcable026.188-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:55 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@89-156-112-45.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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