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10:24 < nsh> Succinct Arguments from Multi-Prover Interactive Proofs and their Efficiency Benefits -- https://eprint.iacr.org/2012/461.pdf
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11:21 < lmatteis> hi guys.
11:21 < lmatteis> have been working on this for the past few months and was wondering what you guys think
11:21 < lmatteis> http://lucaa.org/docs/kudos.pdf
11:22 < lmatteis> (i'm not a researcher, just a beginner undergrad that's why i put university affiliation)
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11:23 < fkhan> should add a biblio when you have time
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11:23 < lmatteis> fkhan: yes it's far from done. related work section has some empty [] that i need to cite
11:25 < fkhan> yeah, i just usually do a literature check before reading to get an idea where the ideas are built from, helps me read some papers at least
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12:54 < lmatteis> essentially what i'm aiming for is a decentralized reddit using a blockchain (for tracking points) and a distributed hash table (DHT) for actually serving the post content (such as the actual comment and the HTTP URL it points to if there's one)
12:54 < lmatteis> and transactions in the chain contain a reference which is essentially the key of the DHT key-pair
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15:20 < nsh> .seen zooko
15:20 < yoleaux> I saw zooko 13 Jul 2015 11:03Z in #bitcoin-wizards: <zooko> :-)
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17:40 < kanzure> if you have multiple proof-of-work algorithm variations, how would you judge the relative merit between their outputs? i can only think of arbitrary answers.
17:40 < gmaxwell> For what application?
17:41 < kanzure> eh, just your typical "reset pow to fiddle with decentralization" (loosely- nothing specific)
17:42 < gmaxwell> I know nothing but $arbritary for that. (For hashcash you can just blinding increment the cost when the rate is high in order to rate limit requests; esp if you can distinguish bad requests after the fact.)
17:42 < kanzure> i have heard the idea to "flip the switch" and go to a different pow algorithm before, but it seems more natural to have a geometric drop-off of one pow algorithm while switching to another, or keeping sha256 pow and then adding another one instead of just a hard switch
17:43 < kanzure> and by "adding" i mean "blocks can be verified using this second verification method" i guess
17:43 < gmaxwell> kanzure: if you're thinking about concurrent-- you're aware that the whole argument for "Multiple algorithims to improve decentralization" is probably totally busted, right?  Needing more circut area increases R&D costs and one time mfg costs, but not operating; and thus probably is a centeralizing force (fewer parties can make hardware).
17:44 < gmaxwell> Oh a transistion, well for that you can have a programmed ratio that changes over time.
17:44 < kanzure> is a ratio equally busted, or less busted?
17:45 < gmaxwell> I think as a transition mechenism that could work.  The argument I was giving above basically only holds for the system that has multiple ones in the steady state.
17:45 < kanzure> right, also i want to clarify i definitely don't mean "sha256 AND scrypt == 1 hash"
17:46 < nsh> hmm
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17:48 < kanzure> also i'm curious how controversial alternative-pow proposals have been in the past.
17:48 < kanzure> obv. it pisses off miners but... ratios seem less likely to, since they already factor hardware depreciation into their plans anyway?
17:48 < kanzure> *transitory ratios
17:49 < alpalp> Changing the algorithm has pretty big incentives on any investment on the new algorithm since what's to stop you from changing it again?
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17:50 < kanzure> well, probably nothing
17:51 < kanzure> but allocating 1% of blocks to sha256-next mig-- actually you don't need to allocate BTC supply to it, you could allocate some chunk of the transaction fees.
17:52 < gmaxwell> I tried to get litecoin to change their POW to make a best effort attempt to make good on their social contract of <s>GPU</s> <s>FPGA</s> ASIC proofness but they did not decide to do so.
17:53 < nsh> who's you? the miner signs away some of their transaction fees, or some fraction of blocks get mined under a secondary hash by difficulty equivocation?
17:54 < kanzure> well i think this would just be a systemic detail, not something miners would be able to control, although a voluntary mechanism would also be curious
17:55 < nsh> voluntary mechanism seems nontrivial
17:55 < nsh> winning a lottery is easy to do for yourself, hard to do for someone else
17:56 < nsh> well, actually i guess miners could include the lowest hash presented by a connected node
17:56 < nsh> so you can voluntarily objectively reward other participants
17:57 < nsh> but it's still voluntary, which is an issue
17:59 < nsh> a problem with allowing more than one type of hash to mine a block is that each block measures the global hashrate only for a single hash type, so you have a harder block period convergence problem
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18:06 < kanzure> re: relative merit, that was some thought along the lines of "BTC has to be allocated between them in some split"
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--- Log closed Sat Aug 01 00:00:27 2015