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[~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:43 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:44 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:50 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:50 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EA5C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:11 -!- prodatalab [~prodatala@nj-71-0-106-66.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:12 -!- prodatalab [~prodatala@nj-71-0-106-66.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:23 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@178pc208.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:23 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@178pc208.sshunet.nl] has quit [Changing host] 06:23 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:24 -!- chris13243 [~chris@108.121.127.221] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:32 -!- Iriez [wario@distribution.xbins.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:34 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:37 -!- ishahnaz [~null@186.5.36.73] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:38 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Quit: xcthulhu] 06:38 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:39 -!- ishahnaz [~null@186.5.36.73] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:44 -!- chris13243 [~chris@108.121.127.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45 -!- psztorc [~psztorc@ool-4575fa8d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:46 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Client Quit] 06:46 -!- Iriez [wario@distribution.xbins.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:48 < psztorc> Hi Taek, thanks for your attention. 06:48 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:49 < psztorc> First of all Voters can not abstain from questions, although there is a theoretical/experimental 'second class' overflow-cateogory where they can. 06:49 < psztorc> I have been concerned with that from the beginning, in fact I list it 3rd (after two vauge/general problems) here: http://www.truthcoin.info/weaknesses/ 06:50 < psztorc> You are right when you say that this could hurt Voters. 06:53 < psztorc> This primarily discouraged by continuing that logic to Traders, who will think "What will the final outcome be? 'Ambiguous' or 'The Reality' , maybe I shouldn't trade here." 06:54 < psztorc> And then continuing form there to Authors, who have to buy the Decision slots...my guess is that these would eventually not-be-cheap. If the result is no-trading, that money was wasted. 06:54 < psztorc> But you are right (as I've explained it so far) that the attacker has still succeeded in destablizing RBCR...some Voters may gain/lose Rep arbitrarily. 06:55 < psztorc> However, in reality I expect to see a phenomenon that I call "re-centralization", where the voters all meet on reddit and decide what to do. 06:56 < psztorc> Many of the decentralization benefits are actually preserved: if the reddit is censored they can easily move somewhere else, and there is still a double-agent incentive such that attempts to manipulate the votes will be expected and treated with suspicion 06:57 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Quit: xcthulhu] 06:59 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:02 < psztorc> I also expect each Branch to come with a small set of rules, which globally define a salient "red line" for ambiguity. As I say on the FAQ, my hope is that Voters will be aggresively punitive with the ".5" vote ...I think both "faithful" and "Nth obscure feature" would be out. 07:03 < psztorc> My offered guideline would be "If you are an experienced Google user and you haven't found it in 2 minutes." 07:04 < psztorc> The more ambiguity Voters tolerate, the more they'll have to deal with in the future, such that they have to do more work (or begin to sell, lowering their colleagues' marketcap). So I'd hope they don't tolerate it. 07:06 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Quit: xcthulhu] 07:07 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p578EA5C9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:08 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:14 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15 -!- jonasschnelli [~jonasschn@2a01:4f8:200:7025::2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:15 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-141-147.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16 -!- chris13243 [~chris@68-26-166-253.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:17 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:17 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-140-30.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:34 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:34 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-185-201-214-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:35 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Client Quit] 07:41 -!- psztorc [~psztorc@ool-4575fa8d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:44 -!- b_lumenkraft [~b_lumenkr@unaffiliated/b-lumenkraft/x-4457406] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:47 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:12 -!- superobserver [~superobse@unaffiliated/superobserver] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32 -!- chris13243 [~chris@68-26-166-253.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:53 -!- xcthulhu [~mpwd@63.119.35.194] has quit [Quit: xcthulhu] 09:01 -!- chris13243 [~chris@68-26-123-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:11 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|away 09:18 -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:25 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@235.sub-70-193-98.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:25 < Taek> psztorc: my worry is that even if ambiguity is not tolerated, an attacker can easily create questions that are right on the line 09:25 < Taek> for example, take 3 minutes to google 09:26 < Taek> additionally, if the abiguity is subtle enough, traders may not realize that it's an abiguous question 09:26 < Taek> e.g., takes 5 minutes to Google 09:26 < Taek> but seems from the surface that it's a simple single search 09:27 < Taek> additionally you have to worry about culturally targeted questions 09:27 < Taek> if something seems like plain English to a portion of the population, but foreign to the rest because it contains colloquiallisms, people might not realize that they're dealing with something ambiguous 09:28 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28 < Taek> re-centralization gives a lot of power to the moderators of whatever discussion forums are chosen 09:28 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:28 < Taek> and sort of forces everyone onto the same discussion forums 09:29 < Taek> I think that the only way out of this problem is for voters to whitelist questions 09:29 < Taek> and all other questions would be '0.5' 09:29 < Taek> but voters would need to be inconsensus when choosing what to whitelist 09:32 -!- chris13243 [~chris@68-26-123-50.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:35 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dulrkqtteztnegta] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:55 < nsh> 'In particular, this shows that the class of languages that have polynomial-time MIPs that are sound against no-signaling strategies, is exactly EXP. Previously, this class was only known to contain PSPACE.' -- https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/862.pdf 09:55 < nsh> (How to Delegate Computers -- The Power of No-Signaling [sic] Proofs) 09:55 < nsh> *computations 09:56 < nsh> (via PIR scheme by Aiello, et al. 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