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13:30 < fkhan> thanks guys i was looking for some info on fraud proofs the other week
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13:41 < kanzure> what did you find?
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13:46 < fkhan> er, well i realized i was responding to the scrollback from yesterday, but the discussion and accompanying btt thread you posted were stimulating
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16:33 < kanzure> 16:33 < jrayhawk> did anyone in lightning land ever look at urbit
16:34 < gmaxwell> someone asked me about urbit the other day and I said "is that the crazy thing with ships and destroyers?"
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16:35 < jrayhawk> Yes.
16:36 < jrayhawk> Yarvin is fond of his flowery verbiage.
16:37 < jrayhawk> But, regardless, there are piles of interesting ideas there about immutable deterministic distributed execution and verification.
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17:11 < kanzure> writeup about the cross-chain multi-chain nodes for payment channel networks (from the other day in here): http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-September/010909.html
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17:49 < gmaxwell> kanzure: (citebot) please provide a citation for one of the many times I've made the same point: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1169915.0
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17:55 < kanzure> gmaxwell: well there was one here at 16:27 http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-08-25.log
17:57 < kanzure> also https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=260180.msg2775695#msg2775695
17:57 < jtimon> phantomcircuit: Bitcoin BT: only includes Boring Txanges that are more boring to review than the name of the banch itself but are obviously urgent if you are considering a 100 years lifetime for the project
17:58 < jtimon> phantomcircuit: btw, do you know what xt stands for?
17:59 < kanzure> more generally https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174266.msg1814137#msg1814137
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18:01 < phantomcircuit> jtimon, i assumes eXTreme
18:02 < phantomcircuit> (that was a joke)
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19:27 < Taek> eXTended
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21:19 < kanzure> "bonded deployment" and rollout of bips to avoid soft-fork bit exhaustion or soft-fork bit meaning confusion http://bitcoinstats.com/irc/bitcoin-dev/logs/2015/09/04#l1441334584.0
21:25 < gmaxwell> oh yea, that was an invention. thanks.
21:25 < gmaxwell> :)
21:25 -!- ebfull [~ebfull@73.34.119.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]
21:25 < gmaxwell> An invention per day keeps deployment away.
21:33 < gmaxwell> Hurrah; transaction cut-through just acted as an effective educational tool: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3jj6dx/regarding_bip100_lukejr_believes_we_need_even/cuq37wt?context=2
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21:51 < ryan-c> wow
21:51 < ryan-c> this is amazin
21:52 < ryan-c> https://1029k.com/brainv2/
21:52 < gmaxwell> you found the XKCD 5 random words survey is a great source of brainwallet passwords?
21:52 < ryan-c> check that brainwallet construction out
21:52 < ryan-c> so i did the math on it, and it's *super* gpu friendly because he didn't understand what he was doing.
21:52 < gmaxwell> ah amazing like that.
21:53 < ryan-c> the main part of it can be broken up into 16384 threads each needing 8MB of ram
21:53 < ryan-c> the beginning/end is up to 64 1MB threads
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21:53 < gmaxwell> Did you ever seen the original bitshares "memory hard POW"?  been waiting to see a scam brainwallet based on that.
21:53 < ryan-c> his "challenge wallet" got drained in less than two weeks.
21:56 < ryan-c> also, it would appear that someone wrote a custom GPU cracker for his 0.5BTC
21:57 < gmaxwell> ryan-c: So there are now people (more than one) that appear to be making a living writing GPU and FPGA engines for new altcoins and taking all their hashpower... so doing that for brainwallets doesn't seem surprising to me.
21:58 < gmaxwell> sure 0.5 btc isn't a ton, but if there are no new vulnerable altcoins this week...
21:58 < ryan-c> that's kinda cool
21:59 < ryan-c> so i guess these people don't have to have a job because they just win at mining alt coins, and they have good gpu/fpga skills, and lulz?
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21:59 < gmaxwell> in any case, see my comment about xkcd? The xkcd guy is collecting a perfect set of priors for brainwallet cracking.
21:59 < gmaxwell> ryan-c: right.
22:00 < ryan-c> gmaxwell: oh, yes, the survey
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22:00 < ryan-c> yeah, but probably not his intent
22:00 < gmaxwell> hah no. still funny.
22:00 < ryan-c> I want to know the % of people that responded with "five random words"
22:00 < ryan-c> I put "chosen by fair die roll"
22:00 < gmaxwell> Thats what I responded with.
22:00 < gmaxwell> "five random words"
22:01 < gmaxwell> SO responded with "random random random random random"
22:01 < gmaxwell> or something like that.
22:01 < gmaxwell> (I probably just deanonymized her survey)
22:02 < gmaxwell> Apparently she put in actual random words than changed. I successfully guessed two of her words.
22:03 < ryan-c> heh
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22:03 < gmaxwell> (the two I guessed were duck and refrigerator; I don't remember the other ones though I think I would have gotten all of them with 100 tries)
22:03 < ryan-c> meat is an impressively poor random number generator
22:03 < gmaxwell> Duck is the most random word.
22:03 < ryan-c> TIL
22:03 < gmaxwell> I expect it will be very highly ranked.
22:04 < gmaxwell> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inherently_funny_word < also related to this
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22:09 < ryan-c> heh
22:09 < ryan-c> there are lots of jokes involving ducks
22:11 < ryan-c> it would be interesting to ask for five random words on mturk
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22:13 < gmaxwell> "enter a secure passphrase"
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22:14 < midnightmagic> ryan-c: 1029k.com is not a valid .com ..?
22:14 < gmaxwell> Ah, wasn't just me.
22:14  * gmaxwell does a victory dance around paleh0rse's reply
22:15 < ryan-c> uh
22:15 < ryan-c> wtf
22:16 < ryan-c> https://1209k.com/brainv2/
22:16 < ryan-c> sorry, transposed some digits
22:17 < ryan-c> the java code cost me a sanity point, i don't recommend
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22:18 < midnightmagic> I often wonder whether the existence of brainwallets puts all bitcoin users at some kind of non-negligible additional risk in places that don't mind throwing you in prison for an extended period of time for no particular reason.
22:18 < midnightmagic> (re: $5 wrench comment in first pp on that URL)
22:21 < ryan-c> midnightmagic: I think that most places that would be willing to do that would do it without bothering to come up with a pretense.
22:21  * midnightmagic thinks about the US..
22:22 < ryan-c> midnightmagic: Well, the most likely way in the US would be contempt.
22:22 < midnightmagic> ryan-c: argh dude, that's fireduck
22:23 < ryan-c> midnightmagic: The "right to remain silent" should protect you unless they can convince a judge that it's a "foregone conclusion" that address X is a brainwallet that you have the passphrase for.
22:23 < midnightmagic> No, I'm Canadian, I don't have rights when I visit the US.
22:24 < ryan-c> if they show that, they can probably compel you (I use "you" here in the general sense, not to refer to anyone in particular) to divulge it under threat of being put in jail for contempt
22:24 < gmaxwell> H. Beatty Chadwick  is fun.
22:25 < ryan-c> midnightmagic: what about fireduck?
22:25 < ryan-c> gmaxwell: thank you, i was just googling to try to find his name
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22:26 < ryan-c> yeah, he got thrown in jail for *years* by a divorce court that claimed he was hiding money
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22:26 < ryan-c> 14 years
22:27 < ryan-c> midnightmagic: has this fireduck guy been involved in other silliness?
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22:37 < veleiro> are we going to have any afternoon parties at the scalability conference?
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