--- Log opened Sun Sep 27 00:00:39 2015 00:01 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:26 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:31 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:40 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phwoiecygqevpjhx] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:49 -!- adam3us [~Adium@host-92-19-14-134.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:51 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:53 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-139-225.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 00:54 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p5B209723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:55 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p20030089EA0808633819CC546E016BB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:59 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p20030089EA0808633819CC546E016BB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10 -!- MoALTz_ is now known as MoALTz 01:11 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:27 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:30 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:39 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:56 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:57 < nsh> maaku, because the blockchain is a de-fact timestamping public notary record? 01:57 < nsh> *de-facto 01:58 < nsh> with a known and calculable cost of history-editing 01:58 < nsh> well, calculable modulo how much NSA mathematics is classified and beyond academia 02:00 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-143-151.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:01 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:06 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10 -!- face_ [~face@mail.hmel.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:11 -!- adam3us [~Adium@host-92-19-14-134.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:56 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:57 -!- dEBRUYNE__ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:01 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:21 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:34 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-phwoiecygqevpjhx] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:36 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:38 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:44 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-weigypisknhwwnta] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:50 -!- nivah [~linker@27.75.174.208] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:52 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:10 -!- hdbuck [~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:11 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:13 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:24 -!- face_ [~face@mail.hmel.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:27 -!- mjerr [~mjerr@p5B209723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tbmit] 04:41 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:45 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:49 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:51 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:55 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:55 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tbmit] 04:56 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:56 -!- tbmit [~Bair@c-66-30-12-236.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@vp0107.uvt.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:09 -!- dEBRUYNE__ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:13 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- psztorc [4575fa8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.117.250.141] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:44 -!- darshini [~darshini@c-71-233-244-149.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:47 -!- darshini is now known as dtmit 05:57 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08 -!- jtimon [~quassel@160.28.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:12 < prosodyC> That hash question actually makes sense on a larger scale. 06:17 < nsh> hmm? 06:25 < prosodyC> Out of scope for now. 06:25 -!- antiatom-recon [~antiatom@91.214.169.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27 < prosodyC> I like clear text, so I've wondered about replacing hashes with basic tables. 06:33 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:37 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:51 -!- JackH_ [~Jack@host-80-43-143-129.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:53 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-143-151.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:57 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:16 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:24 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@78.11.179.104] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:26 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 07:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@78.11.179.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:26 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:32 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:32 -!- dtmit [~darshini@c-71-233-244-149.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dtmit] 07:34 -!- roxtrongo [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:46 < jgarzik> cfields, FYI those posixutils Makefile changes should be automate-able. At least 80% fit a precise pattern 07:50 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:51 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209723.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-100-214-164-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:12 -!- roxtrong_ [~roxtrongo@191.113.91.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:16 -!- dEBRUYNE__ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@vp0107.uvt.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17 -!- Descriptioned1 [~Owner@athedsl-4412820.home.otenet.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:18 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:22 -!- Descriptioned1 [~Owner@athedsl-4412820.home.otenet.gr] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 08:22 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:27 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:43 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:48 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:49 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-142-141.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:50 -!- JackH_ [~Jack@host-80-43-143-129.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:52 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:53 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mmesabtwospzgqsy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:53 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:58 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:58 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:03 < maaku> nsh: point was for their application the hash needn't actually occupy bytes on the chain 09:04 < maaku> the chain needs to commit to a hash, but they could do that without taking up any space at all 09:04 < maaku> see: contracthashtool 09:04 < maaku> (and, actually, their customers can do it entirely without them, but sssshhhhh...) 09:06 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|mapping 09:09 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@pool-71-185-192-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:11 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@pool-71-185-192-213.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:15 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:16 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:16 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:17 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:17 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@dhcp-077-249-237-229.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:17 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@dhcp-077-249-237-229.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 09:17 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:22 -!- Descriptioned [~Owner@unaffiliated/descriptioned] has quit [Quit: pfff] 09:27 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:28 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@host-45-58-252-133.dyn.295.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:34 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:49 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:51 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] maaku: er... is that contracthashtool just incrementing the private key/public key by the data to encode and then sending funds to that public key? 09:52 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rzzyaepmeojtyosm] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:52 -!- dtmit [~darshini@c-71-233-244-149.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:52 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] in that case, why use p2sh? 10:00 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] it should be provable by the sender that they possess Q by spending, and they send their funds to Q+Q' where Q' is a (data)G, thereby committing to the data in the chain. then of course anyone can verify the data by looking at the original input pubkey and incrementing it by Q'. 10:01 < nsh> maaku, i see 10:02 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] and you still need to occupy an extra chunk of bytes on the chain any way you look at it... it's just in the one case it's slightly less because it's encoded into the change. 10:02 < nsh> 'This tool allows you to take a redeemScript as a template and, using basic EC math, replace public keys with ones which are only spendable by the original key's private key holder and which cryptographically commit to the contract hash specified. In this way, it provides a transparent and undetectable way of sending payments which commit to some data without adding extra data to the chain. It does, however, require some small amount of out-of-band commu 10:02 < nsh> nication.' 10:02 < nsh> - https://github.com/Blockstream/contracthashtool 10:03 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-142-141.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:06 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] if you want to make it private, you'd just use ECDH to exchange secret s with the recipient, then send funds to Q+Q'+sG 10:11 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:13 < nsh> tacotime: that is essentially implemented in sidechains-alpha 10:14 -!- kmels [~kmels@184.62.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:15 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:18 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] well, no need to do it on a sidechain, it works fine in bitcoin and is just a few loc 10:22 -!- c0rw|mapping is now known as c0rw1n 10:33 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:36 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:39 < maaku> tacotime: but you can do commitments as parts of regular spends that would happen anyway 10:41 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] maaku: well, if you sent the commitment to the recipient so they knew the output was theirs and incremented their public key with it, or you did it as change. 10:41 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] it still requires an output on the chain to stick it into. 10:42 < maaku> yes, but that output can serve some other purpose too 10:42 < maaku> e.g. in elements alpha, the peg transfer itself commits to the destination address 10:43 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] ah, i see 10:51 < maaku> tacotime: and if you don't have a need to send coins at the moment, you could batch things to be timestamped and then commit to a merkle tree of them the next time you do send coins 10:52 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] maaku: that's true, although it may be the case that they need to be timestamped immediately, in which case you'd probably have to outsource them to a service that's constantly sending transaction i suppose. 10:55 < gmaxwell> It's not just "incremented" ... incremented isn't strong binding. In that you could claim it commited to Y when it really comitted to X by claiming a different original public key. 10:55 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] gmaxwell: using the input pubkey? 10:56 < gmaxwell> what contracthashtool implements is private... committer provides a nonce. The whole thing is a commitment, you can't 'decode' without the original data in any case, so there is no point in using ECDH. just including a nonce in the commitment is fine. 10:57 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] i see 11:00 -!- psztorc [4575fa8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.117.250.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:00 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] and yes, you could always claim a different public key... but if your commitment is incrementing by the public key in the input there's no way to say that there was some other original public key. this is in the case where you make the commitment by sending funds to yourself. 11:01 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] this isn't the case if you're incrementing outputs to unknown recipients 11:02 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- jinglebellz [~jinglebel@149.130.222.229] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:12 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@74-95-207-205-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:20 < gmaxwell> tacotime: no you don't have to be sending "to yourself", to replace the 'commitment', you just have to not be strongly bound to the basepoint. 11:20 < gmaxwell> And that gratitious insecurity is trivally fixed. 11:20 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] sorry about the terminology. 11:23 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] i'll reread appendix a and play with the source code some. 11:28 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:28 -!- JackH [~Jack@host-80-43-142-141.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:32 -!- hdbuck [~hdbuck@unaffiliated/hdbuck] has quit [Quit: hdbuck] 11:36 -!- dEBRUYNE__ is now known as dEBRUYNE 11:41 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:42 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:44 -!- psztorc [4575fa8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.117.250.141] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:49 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:52 -!- adam3us [~Adium@host-92-19-14-134.as13285.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:54 < nsh> "that gratuitous insecurity is trivially fixed" will be the name of my next ambient works album 11:59 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:00 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04 -!- chris___ [~chris@208.185.52.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:06 < roasbeef> tacotime: RE: P2CH, here's an additional resource: http://arxiv.org/pdf/1212.3257.pdf 12:08 -!- Aquentin [~Aquentin@unaffiliated/aquentin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:09 -!- Aquentin [~Aquentin@unaffiliated/aquentin] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 12:09 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gsapvottysdxatat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:10 -!- Dr-G 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