--- Log opened Mon Sep 28 00:00:40 2015
--- Day changed Mon Sep 28 2015
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00:26 < rusty> Dumb schnorr question: uses a different pubkey from ECDSA signatures, right?
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00:40 < gmaxwell> rusty: same pubkeys.
00:40 < rusty> gmaxwell: oh, I'm clearly confused then.  So you generate the priv and pub keys the same as normal?
00:47 < rusty> gmaxwell: Hmm, wikipedia describes key gen for Schnorr as pub = g^priv.  And for ECDSA id describes pub = priv x G.
00:50 < rusty> I took that to mean they are different, but looking at libsecp256k1, the lack of separate keygen functions for schnorr makes it pretty clear.
00:50 < nsh> heh
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10:31 < roasbeef> rusty: yeh, they're equivalent. THe wikipedia article uses multiplicative notation, while when speaking of ECC we typically use additive notation (with scalars being lowercase, and group elements being uppercase)
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10:33 < arubi> I think the confusion was with the 'x' vs '^' notation? at least for me it was until now
10:35 < arubi> er.. maybe not. I'm already too deep into so many tangents and I'm already getting lost in some..
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10:36 < Mixlez> ^ implies discrete logarithm (raise to power, modulo N), x implies elliptic discrete logarithm (ECC multiplication)
10:38 < arubi> thanks Mixlez. I see where my confusion lies now.
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13:02 < MRL-Relay> [shen] what's the deal with this "Compact CT" I've heard on reddit was broken.. is there a description somewhere?
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13:03 < kanzure> MRL-Relay: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1085436.0
13:03 < kanzure> er, shen^
13:04 < MRL-Relay> [shen] thanks :)
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13:14 < nsh> broken?
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13:21 < MRL-Relay> [shen] hmm it looks like : "Unfortunately, Andrew Poelstra was able to break the cryptosystem for this scheme's range-proofs.  " is one of the comments on that thread, so I assume that is what they were reffering to
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14:07 < maaku> it remains to be seen if it will hold up to review
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14:30 < nsh> guys
14:30 < nsh> who will write [i'm looking at you kanzure] a pdf.js patch that automatically adds dates to 'academic papers'
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14:31 < nsh> or in this instance, tell me when https://www.cs.umd.edu/~elaine/docs/permacoin.pdf was written
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14:31 < nsh> even google scholar gives different dates depending on where it's found the paper
14:32 < phantomcircuit> nsh, it would be oh so nice if it became standard practice to put the date of publication in papers
14:32 < nsh> well, a pdj.js patch could, you know, attest to the first viewing of a version of a paper
14:32 < nsh> and add that date into the text
14:32 < nsh> with the science
14:32 < nsh> that we all sit here pontificating about
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14:33 < nsh> but i'm not doing it because my dog ate the box where i keep the thing that means i do actual stuff to improve the world
14:33 < nsh> but there's nothing stopping anyone who hasn't taken solemn vows of non-productivity from fixing this problem
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14:35 < nsh> ]PORs: Proofs of Retrievability for Large Files - Ari Juels  is cited 1059 times
14:36 < nsh> i guess these numbers don't really mean much, coming from the google school of RNG corpus statistics
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14:38 < Ylbam> Does anybody here know this guy? http://www.cs.umd.edu/~wangxiao/
14:38 < Ylbam> Personaly I mean
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14:41 < amiller> Ylbam, yeah
14:42 < Ylbam> Ah great, could he be invested in crypto currencies?
14:42 < amiller> uh, that would surprise me, but who knows, why?
14:43 < Ylbam> ah, I wonder if he could have been working on primecoin some time ago
14:44 < Ylbam> I remember seeing a similar name on the original version of the primecoin whitepaper (removed since)
14:45 < Ylbam> Do you work with him?
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14:47 < amiller> Ylbam, yup, we work in the same lab at umd
14:48 < nsh> amiller, how hard would it be to implement permacoin in a sidechain, at PoC level at least?
14:48 < nsh> we are just discussing options for archiving the internet archive in another castle
14:49 < nsh> oh, the incentive model requires that privkeys are valueable, and therefore [at this point at least] btc or btc-pegged
14:51 < nsh> i don't know if latency cost scaling can be modelled for adaptive difficulty control as easily as hashrate
14:51 < amiller> yeah, today i'd rather decouple permacoin from having to be an "altcoin" on its own, i'd rather have a smart contract system of some kind that just assigned portions of the dataset to people and would pay them to respond periodically with challenges
14:51 < amiller> that could be done with a sidechain i guess
14:52  * nsh nods
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14:52 < amiller> i've been trying to get sidechains alpha to run for a couple of weeks and haven't been able to get it working yet
14:52 < nsh> oh dear; i succeeded a while back but that laptop got screensmashed. will have another go soon
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14:53 < amiller> lmk when you do!
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14:54  * nsh nods
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17:46 < nsh> amiller, or gmaxwell or someone: remind me why index calculus is not useful to attack ECC again
17:46 < nsh> was it to do with smoothness
17:47  * nsh reads: http://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/8301/trying-to-better-understand-the-failure-of-the-index-calculus-for-ecdlp
17:47 < nsh> .t
17:47 < yoleaux> Tue, 29 Sep 2015 00:47:17 UTC
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17:47 < nsh> .title
17:47 < yoleaux> nsh: Sorry, that command (.title) crashed.
17:48 < nsh> right there's no notion of prime factorisation in the field so you can't rely on the density of small factors
17:48 < nsh> is that vaguely on track?
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17:49 < nsh> .wik Unique factorisation domain
17:49 < yoleaux> "In mathematics, a unique factorization domain (UFD) is a commutative ring in which every non-zero non-unit element can be written as a product of prime elements (or irreducible elements), uniquely up to order and units, analogous to the fundamental theorem of arithmetic for the integers." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_factorisation_domain
17:50 < nsh> except it's not proven that particular nor general ECs lack a UFD, just strongly suspected, right?
17:51 < nsh> but there is
17:51 < nsh> .wik Stark Heenger theorem
17:51 < yoleaux> "In number theory, a branch of mathematics, the Stark–Heegner theorem states precisely which quadratic imaginary number fields admit unique factorisation in their ring of integers. It solves a special case of Gauss's class number problem of determining the number of imaginary quadratic fields that have a given fixed class number." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stark%E2%80%93Heegner_theorem
17:52 < nsh> the curves used in ECC do not admit complex multiplication as a rule?
17:53 < nsh> and all this relates to cyclotomic fields somehow
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17:54 < nsh> there's no way i'm going to understand enough mathematics without acquiring kanzure-level brainhalation faculties or concocting some more efficient way of receiving concepts than verbally
17:54 < nsh> :/
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18:39 < andytoshi> shen: the comment on bct about my breaking CCT does not refer to the current way i think it's broken :)
18:39 < andytoshi> but i have an unread email from the author and don't want to say more til i've read that
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20:05 < MRL-Relay> [shen] andytoshi, I see - I would be interested in more compact CT, so it would be nice if there was a fix although I'm not overly hopeful
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