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ZZZzzz…] 08:56 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12 < kanzure> SHA-1 collisions for ~$120k of ec2 time https://sites.google.com/site/itstheshappening/shappening_article.pdf 09:13 -!- zooko [~user@96.88.246.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-56-161-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:18 -!- bit2017 [~linker@171.250.101.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:20 -!- nivah [~linker@171.250.98.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:20 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-139-150.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:27 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:30 -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-56-161-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:30 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@74-95-207-205-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:31 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@74-95-207-205-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@78.11.179.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:48 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@206.110.20.18] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:50 < fluffypony> kanzure: nice, it even has a snappy name 09:51 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:55 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:01 -!- [Derek] [~derek@unaffiliated/derek/x-8562683] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:02 < waxwing> yeah better than https://shaaaaaaaaaaaaa.com/ 10:04 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@206.110.20.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:12 < maaku> it's free-start so 37k7toV1Nv4DfmQbmZ8KuZDQCYK9x5KpzP remains unclaimed... 10:16 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit 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closed the connection] 12:04 -!- c0rw|afk [~c0rw1n@91.176.79.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:06 -!- c0rw|afk is now known as c0rw1n 12:06 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:07 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:10 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:14 -!- shaul [~shaul@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:19 -!- trippysalmon [rob@2001:984:6466:0:1495:ce80:4996:f145] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:20 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-107-3-189-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:21 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:22 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:31 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-161-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:32 -!- shaul 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ZZZzzz…] 12:32 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:36 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@206.110.20.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Quit: Newyorkadam] 12:41 < fluffypony> oh good, DASH solved the 51% attack problem: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg12627834#msg12627834 12:41 < fluffypony> the trick is to state it as solved on a slide at a conference, and never elaborate on how 12:45 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:46 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:49 -!- shaul [~shaul@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:49 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:52 < phantomcircuit> fluffypony, lol 12:53 < fluffypony> "Nothing in crypto can compare to this project in terms of innovation and future promise, nothing." 12:53 < fluffypony> honestly, I think I lose brain cells every time I read that thread 12:54 < bsm117532> I lose brain cells any time I read anything on bitcointalk... 12:55 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 < fluffypony> taht too 12:55 < fluffypony> *that 12:58 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 12:59 < kanzure> "The origin of quorum systems" http://www.eurecom.fr/~vukolic/QuorumsOrigin.pdf 13:00 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:03 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:09 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:10 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:11 -!- shaul [~shaul@static-108-30-103-59.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12 -!- giel__ [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:14 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:15 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@206.110.20.18] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:24 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 13:29 -!- dstadulis [~dstadulis@172.56.31.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30 -!- dstadulis [~dstadulis@172.56.31.150] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:30 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36 -!- zooko [~user@96.88.246.29] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:38 -!- dstadulis [~dstadulis@172.56.31.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:39 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-107-3-189-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:44 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:45 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:52 -!- CodeShark [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:54 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yykbhgqvhlaoenwf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:54 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:56 -!- CodeShark [~CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:00 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@206.110.20.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:04 -!- antiatom [~antiatom@78-21-6-95.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04 < bramc> So I'm working on a merkle set data structure 14:05 -!- antiatom [~antiatom@78-21-6-95.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:07 < kanzure> cool. details? 14:09 -!- CodeShark [CodeShark@cpe-76-167-237-202.san.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:09 < bramc> kanzure, there's a mix of good features and things I'm not going to be implementing in the first version 14:09 < kanzure> what are the things you will be skipping? 14:10 < bramc> The biggest features are that it clumps things together in memory to avoid cache misses and supports batch updates to reduce the amount of wasteful hash recalculation it's doing, both of which have the potential to be massive improvements under some circumstances 14:11 < bsm117532> Could you provide a link for "Merkle Set"? I can imagine by analogy but have never heard of this... 14:11 -!- rustyn_ [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12 < kanzure> bramc: maybe there's some tricks here where you can setup the delta update algorithm to be biased towards being really good at the type of update frequency that natural data (e.g. extracted from its designer looking at blockchain data) that the data structure would be used for. 14:12 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:12 < bramc> The things which will be missing in the first version: It will be in Python instead of C, it won't be benchmarked and optimized, it will be implemented to preallocate all memory it might use up front instead of doing dynamic malloc, it won't do background maintenance, it won't support giving up space if the set gets smaller, it's a set and not a dictionary 14:13 < bramc> kanzure, My goal is to make something which is format compatible with what maaku's already written but much more performant and with fewer external dependencies 14:13 < kanzure> bsm117532: https://gist.github.com/maaku/2aed2cb628024800044d 14:13 < bramc> bsm117532 Not a standard data structure. It's a set which keeps the merkle root of its contents up to date, specifically for use in maintaining utxo roots 14:14 < kanzure> hm what is background maintenance 14:17 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@173.239.75.179] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:19 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50-78-139-77-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:20 < bramc> There's some rebalancing of the tree which is moderately expensive which can be done in the background so that the updates are always fast 14:22 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-56-161-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:23 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23 -!- zooko [~user@96.88.246.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23 -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:23 -!- yorick [~yorick@ip51cd0513.speed.planet.nl] has quit [Changing host] 14:23 -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:26 < bramc> On the other hand, waiting until the last moment to do rebalancing is more space efficient. 14:27 < bramc> Likewise, I'm making it defended against malicious content trying to make it inefficient, and some expense to average lookup time on non-malicious content, but also being more space efficient again. 14:28 < bramc> Obviously it won't be production ready with the list of things left to do, but the idea is to get the ideas down and easy for other people to pick up and maintain. 14:37 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:39 -!- giel__ is now known as gielbier 14:39 -!- gielbier [~giel____@a149043.upc-a.chello.nl] has quit [Changing host] 14:39 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:41 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209964.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:50 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:54 < nwilcox> Was bramc talking about a UTXO state commitment tree, perchance? 14:56 -!- shen_noe [~shen_noe@wired018.math.utah.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:57 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:57 < bramc> nwilcox, Yes I was 15:00 < nwilcox> Cool. Do you have a public design or code? 15:01 < bramc> nwilcox, No I'm still in the design phase, I think I mostly have the basics sorted out and hope to start coding shortly. 15:01 < bramc> I'm not giving the blow by blow on my design iteration because it's a lot of unnecessary detail which leads nowhere except for the parts I'll eventually keep 15:01 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:02 < bramc> The intention is for other people to have actual code to play with as soon as possible, which of course means that that code won't be even vaguely production ready 15:05 -!- TBI [~TBI@84.48.195.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06 -!- TBI [~TBI@84.48.195.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:07 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07 < phantomcircuit> bramc, have you seen the utxo commitments which commit to the set but not the individual members of the set? 15:07 < phantomcircuit> ie XOR all the things together and commit to that 15:08 < phantomcircuit> it's nice in that it doesn't have any scaling issues 15:08 < bramc> phantomcircuit, That's horribly busted, you can easily construct collisions 15:08 < phantomcircuit> it's not in that it's useless for spv clients 15:08 < phantomcircuit> bramc, yeah i described it incorrectly 15:09 < phantomcircuit> find and ask sipa :) 15:09 < bramc> I will, but the whole point of this is to fix spv. Well, that and allow for nodes to not have a complete history 15:11 < instagibbs> hopefully soon questions about utxo commitment strategies are replied to with "read the wiki" rather than "find Bob and ask" ;) 15:11 < ryan-c> anyone know of a publicly available tool that will find the shortest path of transactions between two addresses? 15:13 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:14 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:19 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:22 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:27 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37 < bramc> instagibbs, Things are still under construction. Much better documentation will of course be necessary for a real extension to get added. 15:39 < phantomcircuit> bramc, i actually view the fixing of spv clients as less important then fixing the full node download issues 15:54 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@173.239.75.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:09 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:11 -!- davispuh [~quassel@212.93.100.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:18 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:25 < bsm117532> Could UTXO commitments assist in sharding the blockchain? 16:29 -!- bramc [~bram@38.99.42.130] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:33 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:36 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:40 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:48 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:49 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:55 < CodeShark> has anyone tinkered with sharding using STXO/MMR commitments? 17:03 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vuicathdxfjozkfe] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:04 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:05 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05 -!- bencxr [~bencxr@c-50-161-21-167.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [] 17:08 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:14 < phantomcircuit> bsm117532, no 17:16 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17 -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:20 -!- afk11 [~afk11@unaffiliated/afk11] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:23 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:24 < bsm117532> Well that's definitive... Seems to me that if I'm holding a subset of UTXOs (a shard, by definition), then I'd need some kind of knowledge about the global state. 17:30 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:32 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:38 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@50-1-85-32.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:45 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:47 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:50 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:50 -!- esneider [~esneider@181.29.97.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:56 -!- sadoshi_ [uid2709@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cjnrwbmcqksdwmjh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:56 -!- sadoshi_ is now known as sadoshi 18:07 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@76-255-129-88.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:08 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[~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:18 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:47 < midnightmagic> ryan-c: someone has built jgrapht into gephi.. jgrapht does dijkstra's. http://activeintelligence.org/blog/archive/graph-algorithms-libraries-for-java/ 22:57 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:59 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01 -!- zooko [~user@50-195-79-178-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:06 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmpwalhzkkkjcjtz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:23 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@p5B209DC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 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