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[~eudoxia@r167-56-139-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:58 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:07 -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 10:07 -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:08 -!- maaku is now known as Guest18208 10:09 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:13 -!- Guest18208 [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23 -!- bedeho [~bedeho@50-202-37-133-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:28 < OxADADA> are they any useful tools for experimenting/debugging/emulating bitcoin script? 10:28 < OxADADA> as of right now i'm using python-bitcoinlib, and debugging the op codes aren't very user-friendly :) 10:28 < kanzure> webbtc.com had a debugger at one point; i think bitpay also released one implemented in javascript. 10:29 < kanzure> yeah i would personally prefer to use python-bitcoinlib for script debugging 10:29 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:30 < OxADADA> thx b. 10:33 -!- shen_noe2 [~holoirc@172.56.39.8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:36 -!- shen_noe [~holoirc@75-169-29-40.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:42 -!- vibe [57edae44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.237.174.68] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:43 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50 -!- maaku__ [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:50 -!- shen_noe2 [~holoirc@172.56.39.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51 -!- maaku__ is now known as maaku 10:55 -!- DrWat [~DrWat@pc-181-242-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:55 -!- DrWat [~DrWat@pc-181-242-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 10:58 -!- zooko [~user@172.56.12.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:03 -!- vibe [57edae44@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.237.174.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:04 -!- CoinMuncher [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:09 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:14 < andytoshi> OxADADA: are you comfortable using rust? 11:16 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-139-225.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16 < andytoshi> OxADADA: #bitcoin-dev is probably a better channel for this. i have a rust library that can do script tracing etc (though i got distracted and the rust language moved on, so i don't have any tools that actually implement this right now) 11:17 < OxADADA> andytoshi: not Rust, but i've been interested in trying it. 11:17 < OxADADA> andytoshi: what do you mean 'tracing'? 11:21 < andytoshi> OxADADA: i mean my lib has a function that you give a Script to and it returns an array of ScriptTrace objects which have a bunch of info about the opcode as well as the state of the stack, whether we are in an executed/unexecuted branch etc 11:22 < andytoshi> i used to have a wallet that exposed this over RPC but it got bitrotted by the rustlib changes over the last year 11:22 < OxADADA> andytoshi: what rotted, the libs? 11:23 < andytoshi> OxADADA: my code. the library changed a lot because i did all the development before 1.0 11:28 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@c-50-156-64-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:30 -!- gill3s [~gill3s@unaffiliated/gill3s] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 11:32 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@c-50-156-64-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:34 < OxADADA> andytoshi: if you posted it on GH it might get some lovin' from some code-fairy that finds it useful enough to update ;-) 11:36 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:37 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:44 -!- dev141 [~dev141@2602:306:bc80:32a0:4093:5266:4e80:c07] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:48 -!- Guest16175 [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:49 -!- yang [yang@freenode/sponsor/fsf.member.yang] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:50 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50.232.225.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:53 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50.232.225.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:56 -!- pigeons [~pigeons@94.242.209.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:56 -!- ASTP001_ [~ASTP001@50.232.225.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:56 -!- pigeons is now known as Guest78786 11:57 -!- yang [yang@freenode/sponsor/fsf.member.yang] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:58 -!- mjerr [~matsjj@89.197.31.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58 -!- dev141 [~dev141@2602:306:bc80:32a0:4093:5266:4e80:c07] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:58 -!- ASTP001 [~ASTP001@50.232.225.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59 -!- dev141 [~dev141@107.200.3.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:01 -!- dev141 [~dev141@107.200.3.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:09 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:11 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:31 -!- orik [~orik@50-46-139-225.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 12:36 -!- shen_noe [~holoirc@172.56.39.8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:41 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:44 -!- dignork [~dignork@unaffiliated/dignork] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:45 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Quit: .] 12:49 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-73-202-109-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:51 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:52 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:52 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:54 -!- zooko [~user@172.56.9.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 -!- jps [~Jud@198.199.83.156] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:03 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:04 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 13:05 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:08 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:09 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 < nsh> .t https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uplycLvraw 13:14 < yoleaux> nsh: Sorry, I don't know what timezone that is. If in doubt, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tz_database_time_zones for a list of options. 13:14 < nsh> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uplycLvraw 13:14 < yoleaux> Thinking Algorithmically About Impossibility - YouTube 13:14 < nsh> (Simons Inst) 13:17 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:18 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@108-221-18-187.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:19 -!- MrHodl [~fuc@213.183.56.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:27 -!- koshii [~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30 -!- koshii [~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:32 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] 0xADADA: hashmal 13:38 < MRL-Relay> [tacotime] https://github.com/mazaclub/hashmal 13:38 -!- orik [~orik@mobile-166-176-187-28.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:46 -!- jps [~Jud@198.199.83.156] has quit [Quit: jps] 13:48 -!- shen_noe [~holoirc@172.56.39.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:00 -!- rabidus [~lauri.j@uhiainen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:02 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@108-221-18-187.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:04 < amiller> probabilistic micropayments at CCS, one of the top security conferences 14:05 < gmaxwell> amiller: does the scheme prevent/discourage doublespends? 14:05 < amiller> http://www.initc3.org/uploads/5/7/5/2/57520325/micropay2.pdf 14:06 < amiller> (that link is failing for me now so ymmv) 14:06 < amiller> back up now 14:06 < amiller> yes, using a greenaddress / micropayment 'hub' kinda thing 14:08 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:08 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:16 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:17 < amiller> btw, if i haven't mentioned it here already yet, CCS has TWO sessions on cryptocurrency http://www.sigsac.org/ccs/CCS2015/pro_agenda.html 14:19 < bsm1175321> Ah you're presenting your nonoutsourceable paper. Good. I like that idea. 14:21 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:21 -!- copumpkin [~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-107-3-189-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:28 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 14:38 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:42 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-107-3-189-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43 -!- orik [~orik@168.156.40.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:45 -!- dEBRUYNE_ [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:46 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:47 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50 -!- orik [~orik@168.156.40.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50 -!- orik [~orik@168.156.40.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:53 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iuhxajaywihyawag] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 14:55 -!- orik [~orik@168.156.40.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dzjjmpwesctorqfv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:04 -!- rasengan_ [~rasengan@eyearesee.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05 -!- rasengan [~rasengan@eyearesee.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:05 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-73-202-109-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:05 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09 < nsh> Abstract: We propose a new Elliptic curve at a security level significantly greater than the standard 128 bits, that fills a gap in current proposals while bucking the expected security vs cost curve by exploiting the new trick recently described by Granger and Scott. This essentially reduces the cost of field multiplication to that of a field squaring. -- http://eprint.iacr.org/2015/991 15:11 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:12 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:19 -!- bsm1175321 [~bsm117532@38.121.165.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20 < gmaxwell> Faster ECC over F 2 521 −1 by Granger and Scott is actually the interesting paper. :) 15:22 * nsh nods 15:23 -!- DrWat [DrWat@pc-181-242-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:24 < nsh> ( https://eprint.iacr.org/2014/852.pdf ) 15:25 -!- zooko [~user@172.56.9.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:27 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 15:29 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:29 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:29 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:31 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:33 -!- zooko [~user@172.56.9.214] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:36 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:42 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:43 -!- chris13243 [~chris@wsip-174-75-65-99.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:43 -!- simple_human [~marrow@24-183-209-215.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:49 -!- DrWat [DrWat@pc-181-242-100-190.cm.vtr.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 15:51 -!- nubbins` [~leel@unaffiliated/nubbins] has quit [Quit: Quit] 15:52 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57 -!- chris13243 [~chris@wsip-174-75-65-99.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@104-6-36-162.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:02 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03 -!- rustyn [~rustyn@unaffiliated/rustyn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@2a02:8108:73f:f6e4:e23f:49ff:fe47:9364] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:09 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:13 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 16:16 -!- simple_human [~marrow@24-183-209-215.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16 -!- TBI_ [~TBI@20.84-48-195.nextgentel.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:19 -!- TBI [~TBI@20.84-48-195.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:20 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:20 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:22 -!- Yoghur114 [~jorn@g227014.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:2078:359:af67:c9fe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:25 -!- zooko [~user@172.56.9.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:25 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@56-197-ftth.onsbrabantnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:25 -!- hazirafel [~hazirafel@176.106.227.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:32 -!- c0rw|away is now known as c0rw1n 16:41 -!- derperter [~derperter@2602:302:d107:cd90:5594:1c1:c1a8:9c44] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:41 < derperter> new blood can I really mine coins for $ 16:42 -!- derperter [~derperter@2602:302:d107:cd90:5594:1c1:c1a8:9c44] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 16:51 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:51 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:2078:359:af67:c9fe] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03 -!- tripleslash [~triplesla@unaffiliated/imsaguy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:09 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10 -!- nwilcox [~nwilcox@c-73-202-109-21.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:10 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:10 -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@c-50-156-64-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18 -!- maaku [~quassel@c-50-156-64-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:18 -!- maaku is now known as Guest24437 17:22 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 -!- chris13243 [~chris@70-0-73-129.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:27 -!- maaku_ is now known as maaku 17:28 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:29 -!- adam3us1 [~Adium@141.8.72.43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:30 -!- adam3us [~Adium@c3-219.i07-1.onvol.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:31 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:33 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@37.37-191-175.fiber.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 17:34 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:37 < bramc> If an incentive is created for minimizing the number of utxos, it's important that that incentive not be so large that it causes everyone to combine all utxos into one giant one because they're getting paid for it. 17:39 < bramc> Here's an interesting question: Let's say that a lot of people have dust which is so small as to be worthless, but there's an incentive for fewer utxos which will make them get paid for destroying it. Can you construct a massive collaborative protocol so that a whole lot of people with such dust can make one giant transaction with all of them as inputs where the output goes to one of them by lottery, proportionately weig 17:39 < bramc> hted by their amount of input? 17:40 < gmaxwell> with the priority logic in bitcoin core I very carfully and intentionally capped it so at best the spend makes the utxo consumption 'free', but never negative in cost. 17:42 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@96.90.231.161] has quit [Quit: bendavenport] 17:42 < bramc> gmaxwell, I'm assuming some kind of fee structure imposed by the blockchain itself, including the possibility for the fee to go negative in this extreme case, and narcissistic randian calculation on the part of local wallets 17:44 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-owrikmonxigidqsm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:44 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 17:48 < bramc> Your treehugger notions of default altruistic behavior in the bitcoin core are ridiculous. Obviously all end users will hand modify and recompile their wallets to optimize for transaction fees. 17:49 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.79.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@91.176.79.56] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:53 < gmaxwell> bramc: what I just described avoids the bad behavior. Basically if you cap the benefit of consuming a utxo so that it can never go negative (but instead perhaps be small) it won't create crazy incentives like creating lots of utxo so you can burn them later. And yea, w/ priority there is no real incentive to follow it, but the same kind of logic should be workable to things that can't just be by 17:53 < gmaxwell> passed. 17:53 -!- orik [~orik@50.125.71.245] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:54 < bramc> gmaxwell, Ideally if there's reward for destroying utxos there should be punishment for creating them in the first place (although that's covered somewhat reasonably by per-byte transaction fees) 17:57 < gmaxwell> right, but now imagine that you have a block cost limit that is creating a limited supply for space. If utxo consumption has a sufficiently negative cost it would be in your interest to make sure you always emit a maximum size block to store up the cost for the future, if there aren't otherwise enough transactions to fill it. 18:19 -!- gielbier [~giel____@unaffiliated/gielbier] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20 -!- snthsnth [~snthsnth@c-98-207-208-241.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:21 -!- chris13243 [~chris@70-0-73-129.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:26 < bramc> Yes, it isn't clear how to make an incentive for reducing utxos which doesn't also create a bunch of nasty side effects 18:26 < bramc> I haven't really thought about this before except in the most vague and hand-wavy of ways. 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