--- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:36 2015 00:03 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:09 -!- p15 [~p15@ip-27-214-104-93.static.contabo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14 < bramc> Is it important to clean up memory as data is deleted or does it really, really not matter? 00:20 < bramc> Today on the anal retentive programmer: How to clean your bit bucket 00:24 < Luke-Jr> bramc: … what do you mean? 00:24 < Luke-Jr> if you don't free your memory, it will obviously leak 00:25 < bramc> Luke-Jr, I'm doing my own memory management, it's a question of whether I zero stuff out when it's no longer used (the zeroing in some cases contains semantic information, in others it's just redundant) 00:26 -!- p15 [~p15@ip-28-214-104-93.static.contabo.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:26 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-32-240.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:30 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:33 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34 -!- JackH_ is now known as JackH 00:36 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:37 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@75-175-72-226.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48 < bramc> This is for my Merkle Set 00:54 -!- epopt [~epopt@108-208-198-211.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56 -!- Erik_dc [~erik@d54C620ED.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:04 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:2df1:ce34:8cf7:c6b3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:12 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:19 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:23 -!- raver_edm [~vegas_nig@2602:306:b8e0:8160:95a4:f8cb:4bcb:d950] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25 < Taek> bramc: You should definintely zero out memory if there is secret data. 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[~dignork@unaffiliated/dignork] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10 -!- kisspunch [~za3k@za3k.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:15 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:19 -!- mountaingoat [~mountaing@unaffiliated/mountaingoat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:19 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:29 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:30 < petertodd> gmaxwell: "Petertodd actually proposed basically the same idea" <- no, I was asked to do it - part of why I dropped the contract was I thought going to all that effort just to get rid of a GB of UTXO's was a bad idea 04:32 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:33 -!- esneider [~esneider@186.137.73.146] has quit [Client Quit] 04:36 -!- melvster [~melvster@86.49.18.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 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[Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-yzhjjkbdekoxhiuh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:00 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:00 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01 < bsm117532> The ever-growing utxo set is beginning to weigh on my mind. I wonder if there's a way to use ZKP's to keep a "virtual" utxo set. i.e. a transaction could be a ZKP proof of a valid state transition on the ledger, without anyone actually keeping the ledger. This would presumably require clients to keep more data about their utxos. 06:02 -!- zookolaptop [~user@2601:281:8001:26aa:6d4c:c7eb:6a6a:6504] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:02 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:03 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03 < phantomcircuit> bsm117532, not without reducing the security of the system to the security of the zkp 06:03 < phantomcircuit> which would certainly be less than the security of the current scheme 06:04 < phantomcircuit> to a limited extent clients can produce partial proofs that their transactions are valid and then full node operators can build fraud proofs to counter 06:05 < phantomcircuit> however such a scheme still requires full nodes exist and be available but more so changes the censorship resistance requirement substantially 06:05 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:05 < phantomcircuit> bsm117532, tl;dr yes but not 06:06 -!- sparetire_ [~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:06 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:07 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:10 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:13 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:16 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:18 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19 -!- tromp [~tromp@rtc35-246.rentec.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:20 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:23 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:27 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:29 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:31 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31 -!- c-cex-yuriy [uid76808@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dxukxtifzgipwviv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:32 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:33 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:35 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38 -!- harding_ is now known as harding 06:38 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:40 -!- bitdevsn_ [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:40 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40 -!- bitdevsn_ [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:45 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:45 < bsm117532> phantomcircuit: none of what you say is obvious to me, nor how to do it. Do you know of any work in this direction? 06:46 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:48 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:49 -!- zwick [~zwick@fsf/member/zwick] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:49 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49 -!- Giszmo [~leo@201.215.55.139] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50 < bsm117532> Another way of stating the same thing might be: "Could the UTXO set be kept entirely on the client side, and validated with ZKP's?" If possible it would allow node scaling to be only dependent on the number of transactions, not the number of accounts/addresses/users. 06:51 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:52 -!- hashtagg_ [~hashtag@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:52 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53 -!- binaryatrocity [~quassel@unaffiliated/br4n] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:54 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:54 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:55 -!- bitdevsnyc [~bitdevsny@cpe-158-222-198-108.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57 < phantomcircuit> bsm117532, yes but unproven crypto 06:59 -!- TBI [~TBI@84.48.195.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:02 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@host-45-58-248-216.dyn.295.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:07 -!- roconnor [~roconnor@host-45-58-248-216.dyn.295.ca] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:07 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:08 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 07:09 -!- GGuyZ [~GGuyZ@216-15-125-203.c3-0.sbo-ubr1.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:13 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:14 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:16 -!- melvster [~melvster@86.49.18.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:19 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:2df1:ce34:8cf7:c6b3] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:19 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@89.197.31.78] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@89.197.31.78] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:20 -!- bramc [~bram@99-75-88-206.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:24 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@89.197.31.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26 < bsm1175321> I was just wondering if a Schnorr signature could be used, likening to gmaxwell's presentation of Schnorr signatures for multisig -- could signatures for the last n-1 transactions (all transactions back to the coin's origin coinbase/genesis) be combined with the holder's signature when spent? 07:29 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:30 < maaku_> bsm1175321: zkp rely on cryptographic assumptions that are new to bitcoin 07:41 < sipa> bsm1175321: the efficient schnorr combining of multiple signatures only works when they sign the same message 07:51 -!- helo [~helo@unaffiliated/helo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:51 -!- zookolaptop [~user@72.42.70.227] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:00 < bsm1175321> maaku_: I'm willing to consider other assumptions, this is -wizards. ;-) 08:00 < bsm1175321> sipa: so such a scheme would have to be similar to Chaumian e-cash. The signature would have to be on the serial number of a fixed denomination, rather than divisible utxos. 08:02 -!- helo [~helo@unaffiliated/helo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:03 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:06 -!- chmod755 [~chmod755@unaffiliated/chmod755] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:32 < bramc> maaku_, I've come up with specifics of filling in the details of a patricia trie which I like. It mostly has to do with making proofs of non-inclusion efficient. 08:39 -!- Guest43031 [~luigi1112@static-216-176-69-170.consolidated.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:39 -!- Guest43031 [~luigi1112@unaffiliated/luigi1111] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:39 -!- Guest43031 is now known as luigi1111w 08:45 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@178-157-152.dynamic.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:48 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@75.175.72.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51 -!- Terry4 [~Terry4@testbed-users.tor-exit.calyxinstitute.org] has quit [Quit: Terry4] 08:52 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:07 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08 -!- aj [~aj@cerulean.erisian.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11 -!- bit2017 [~linker@171.250.100.43] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:12 < coinoperated> @kanzure, in the scalability summary deck you made, on Pg 18 (and i think again a few slides later) you refer to pruning, "invalidate old UTXOs", with sub notes suggesting cases like burning old BTC and move old BTC to miner subsidy or other purposes. Are there more details on these proposals anywhere, and how seriously were they taken? 09:14 < coinoperated> at face value these would seem to be rather unpopular suggestions 09:15 < bsm1175321> coinoperated: There was some discussion of this on the mailing list this week. Indeed the proposals were unpopular. 09:16 < bsm1175321> This thread: http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2015-December/011952.html 09:17 < coinoperated> @bsm1175321: ah thanks, dormant accounts escheat to the state in traditional banking, this would be a Bitcoin version of that practice then 09:18 < pigeons> coinoperated: in this proposal the funds aren't lost to the owner, they can still be spent 09:18 < bsm1175321> Some of the replies discussed confiscating coins though... 09:21 < coinoperated> i wonder if in 20 years this will not be as unpopular. one cannot fight for their rights to posession from the grave 09:21 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@70-36-136-123.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:23 < coinoperated> or in the language of the proposal linked above" It becomes the responsibility of dormant coin holders to scan the 09:23 < coinoperated> blockchain for the current status of the UTXO commitment for their coin. " 09:23 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 < bsm1175321> coinoperated: proof-of-life or death is by necessity centralized, generally a function of the state. And there's no reason autonomous programs couldn't keep bitcoin wallets. 09:25 < bsm1175321> Lots of people throughout history have been declared dead so corrupt states could seize their assets. 09:26 < coinoperated> even autonomous programs need someone feeding them electricity 09:27 < coinoperated> you don't have to be dead even, just insufficiently relevant to consensus 09:27 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:27 < bsm1175321> We're veering offtopic. But ways to reduce the utxo set are still interesting. 09:28 -!- nabu [~nabu@46.166.188.208] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:28 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:28 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-144-109.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 < coinoperated> do you know of a place where discussion of issues that have a general bearing on Bitcoin's long term developemnt are on topic? 09:29 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:29 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:30 < bsm1175321> Well here, or bitcoin-dev. I'm just saying proof-of-death isn't a technical issue that cryptography has any bearing on. 09:31 -!- mrkent [~textual@unaffiliated/mrkent] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:33 < coinoperated> oh i see, i wasn't really thinking in terms of proof of death, just using it as a comparative case in fiat contexts. You don't have to be dead, just unable to fight your corner for whatever reason, while consensus on a hard fork closes in on a solution that invalidates your UTXOs. I guess this is not a suitable topic for the IRC format though. 09:34 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:34 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:34 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:36 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@70-36-136-123.dsl.dynamic.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:37 -!- tachys [~alex@96.90.231.161] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:37 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:37 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@128-79-141-196.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:38 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:38 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@70.36.136.123] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:38 -!- eudoxia 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[~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-opwsvfusuzqwzgwr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:52 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@rrcs-74-87-213-251.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:53 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:54 -!- jannes [~jannes@092-111-146-044.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:54 -!- bitdevsn_ [~bitdevsny@pool-173-68-96-98.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:56 < kanzure> more on lightning onion routing http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2015-December/000384.html http://pastebin.com/vLUiW168 15:57 -!- moa [~kiwigb@opentransactions/dev/moa] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:58 -!- bitdevsnyc [bitdevsnyc@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-qsatcrkzrvwiuqzv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00 -!- jannes [~jannes@092-111-146-044.static.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:02 -!- Newyorkadam [~Newyorkad@wikipedia/Newyorkadam] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2_ [~user@172.58.104.146] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- fkhan [weechat@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-pvbmplgegdcilohu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:04 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:05 -!- go1111111 [~go1111111@157.130.186.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:08 < Logicwax> with BIP65, if nLocktime is being used for a different purpose (min age of outputs)....is nLocktime ignored when determining if a TX is valid to be mined? (the original use of nLocktime) 16:08 -!- bendavenport [~bpd@70-89-66-137-ca.sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: bendavenport] 16:11 < Logicwax> i get confused when i read "OP_CHECKLOCKTIMEVERIFY checks if the original TX nLockTime is larger than the most recent block" 16:12 < Logicwax> to me thags confusing, because wouldnt that previous TX not be mined if its nLockTime was in the future? 16:12 < sipa> txn with nLockTime values that are in the future are not valid in the blockchain 16:13 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@213.205.251.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13 < Logicwax> thats what i thought....so with bip65 is that ignored? 16:13 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@213.205.251.158] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:13 < sipa> no 16:13 < Logicwax> how does a bip65 TX get mined if its nLockTime is set to some time in the future? 16:14 < sipa> bip65 allows a transaction to put a constraint on the nLockTime of the transaction spending it 16:14 < Logicwax> ah... 16:14 < sipa> indirectly that impacts when that transaction can go into the blockchain 16:16 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:16 < sipa> and i think you're confusing things with bip112, which is like bip65, but with relative time rather than absolute time 16:16 < Logicwax> so bip65 would mean the TX puts a rule that the future TX spending that has to have a nLockTime meeting some min requirement (while also, obviously meeting the requirement of nLockTime's original use, which is no time in the future) 16:16 < Logicwax> na...i mean absolute 16:17 < sipa> right; OP_CLTV sets a constraint on nLockTime; nLockTime sets a constraint on block chain inclusion 16:17 < Logicwax> i was just confused as to whether nLockTime gets ignored like how sequences get repurposed in 112 16:17 < Logicwax> ok i get it 16:17 < Logicwax> thanks 16:17 < sipa> no, we can't change nLockTime's semantics, that would be a hardfork 16:17 -!- matsjj [~matsjj@213.205.251.158] has quit 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[Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17 -!- zooko [~zooko@50.141.119.23] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:17 -!- liteIRC_ [~zooko@2607:fb90:120:c603:2ff:693d:4b85:333c] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21 -!- c0rw1n is now known as c0rw|zZz 17:22 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:22 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc3-swan1-0-0-cust996.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:22 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:23 -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:25 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 -!- Yoghur114_2 [~jorn@80.57.227.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-32-240.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:31 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-chpkftmygwwoqlsm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 17:35 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2_ [~user@172.58.104.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:40 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@unaffiliated/tiraspol] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:42 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@c-98-212-187-224.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:42 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@c-98-212-187-224.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:42 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@unaffiliated/tiraspol] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:43 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@46.166.188.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44 < bramc> The set containing exactly one element is a really, really annoying edge case 17:45 < bsm117532> Seems like it would be easy to special case everywhere? 17:46 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:47 -!- pozitron [~nu@85.159.237.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:48 -!- erasmosp_ [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:49 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2_ [~user@172.56.7.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:49 -!- Quanttek [~quassel@ip1f11db5b.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:50 -!- erasmos__ [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:50 < bramc> bsm117532 Yes it's easy, but it's also hella annoying 17:51 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:51 -!- liteIRC_ [~zooko@c-71-196-136-219.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:52 -!- erasmospunk [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:52 -!- erasmosp_ [~erasmospu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/erasmospunk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.56.6.15] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:53 -!- zooko [~zooko@50.141.119.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:53 -!- liteIRC_ is now known as zooko 17:54 -!- erasmosp_ 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closed the connection] 23:04 -!- nanasho [~nanasha25@195-154-136-40.rev.poneytelecom.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:05 < nanasho> bitcoin-pricetalk invite only 23:05 < nanasho> help a fellow human being out 23:06 -!- Giszmo [~leo@201.215.55.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07 -!- tachys [~alex@c-50-131-227-138.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:26 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46 -!- btcdrak [uid115429@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wkiupwvmmmnghymy] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:46 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48 -!- Dizzle [~Dizzle@2605:6000:1018:c0b1:ad8f:9be:185e:c8ad] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:58 < p15> try ##bitcoin --- Log closed Tue Dec 15 00:00:26 2015