--- Log opened Fri Feb 19 00:00:37 2016
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00:59 < koshii> Are Bitcoin contracts required to have a deterministic result? (As Ethereum's are)
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01:05 < nsh> what's the alternative?
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01:20 < koshii> nsh: That they are not (due to not being validated?)
01:20 < koshii> nsh: This might be a fundamental misunderstanding though; that's why i'm asking.
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01:45 < gwillen> koshii: yes, it's impossible in the script to write a contract that would have a nondeterministic result, because a block is only valid if all transactions in it are valid, and if you could write a transaction whose validity was nondeterministic, you'd have a nondeterministicly-valid block, which would cause all sorts of shenanigans
01:46 < gwillen> like, random chain forks on different nodes
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01:58 < koshii> Yeah right, that makes sense
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02:05 < wumpus> right, the consensus code must have the same output given the same input on all nodes, otherwise different nodes will end up stuck or even on different forks. This is one of bitcoin's harder problems.
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02:08 < koshii> I have to correct something I said earlier. Upon some reading, apparently it's impossible in the script to write a contract that would have a nondeterministic result, because a block is only valid if all transactions in it are valid, and if you could write a transaction whose validity was nondeterministic, you'd have a nondeterministicly-valid block, which would cause all sorts of shenanigans.
02:08 < koshii> I will correct using your exact words if you don't mind, as above. I gave someone bad info earlier.
02:09 < koshii> Can I quote your IRC name gwillen?
02:09 < gwillen> koshii: absolutely, yeah, thanks for asking
02:09 < koshii> Thanks again.
02:10 < gwillen> np!
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06:08 < kanzure> phantomcircuit: yea i have been meaning to ban him from the mailing list
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06:08 < kanzure> i keep forgetting
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08:26 < waxwing> nick szabo tweets this eprint.iacr.org/2015/464.pdf  and calls it a 'great survey'. am i alone in thinking the comparison it makes between PoW and PoS is mostly nonsense?
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08:30 < bsm1175321> waxwing: I'd agree with that.
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09:44 < fluffypony> waxwing: agreed, that survey is mostly rubbish
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09:45 < fluffypony> it's a pity this stopped getting updated: http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins
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09:48 < tromp> there shld be no need to investigate insta/fast-mines; ideally, they're prevented by a distribution curve that gives out under 1% in the first month or so
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09:50 < fluffypony> tromp: the problem is that very few altcoins publish distribution curves, so effectively the author was doing just that, and then showing the conclusions that are drawn from that knowledge
09:52 < tromp> i wonder how many coins satisfy that slow start criterion
09:54 < fluffypony> the author lists 14 that are "acceptably mined", although it was last updated July 2014
09:55 < tromp> bitcoin reached 1% in 4200 blocks, which should happen after 29.167 days
09:57 < tromp> actually, block 4200 arrived 42 days after genesis!
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10:00 < tromp> making bitcoin a certified slow-starter
10:02 < tromp> of course, with the slow bi-weekly difficulty retarget, it could easily have been otherwise...
10:02 < fluffypony> yeah - I guess the differentiator is that there was little-to-no interest in mining Bitcoin at that point, not so with a newly launched altcoin
10:03 < tromp> which is why new launches should not have maximum reward from the start
10:03 < tromp> but precious few if any coins apply that lesson
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13:02 < mrkent> question regarding thin/weak blocks I had based on this response: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/46gtjm/thin_blocks_early_results_messages_are_on_average/d05frnd
13:04 < mrkent> Doesn't this (in a sense) alter consensus rules into the higher standard node relay requirements by incentivizing miners to follow those rules?
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18:39 < Taek> tromp: slow starting coins are often unsuccessful in the marketplace. Without a desperate scarcity, you don't trigger that panic-buy sensation that helps to kick-start the coin
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 20 00:00:38 2016