--- Log opened Fri Apr 01 00:00:16 2016 00:01 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@75.133.112.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@75.133.112.155] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 -!- phiche1 [~Adium@2.71.183.199.mobile.tre.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.69.81.129.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:28 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:43 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:57 < nsh> good questions, bsm1175321 00:57 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:00 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:05 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:07 < nsh> 'In structural complexity theory, the Berman–Hartmanis conjecture is an unsolved conjecture named after Leonard C. Berman and Juris Hartmanis that states that all NP-complete languages look alike, in the sense that they can be related to each other by polynomial time isomorphisms.[1][2][3][4]' 01:10 -!- _rht [uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnmdmosufyywokdi] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:11 -!- _rht [uid86914@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tvecprgznopprofd] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:12 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:14 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Client Quit] 01:19 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:24 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:24 -!- phiche [~Adium@185.97.214.101] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:26 -!- phiche1 [~Adium@2.71.183.199.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:26 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:27 -!- 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02:50 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:00 < waxwing> has anyone looked at this at all? https://github.com/brave/ledger/blob/master/documentation/Ledger-Principles.md 03:03 -!- johnwhitton [~johnwhitt@c-71-202-223-50.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: johnwhitton] 03:07 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:07 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:07 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:08 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:11 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:15 < waxwing> https://anonize.org/assets/technology.html and paper https://anonize.org/assets/anonize-oak-camera.pdf seem to be the interesting bit 03:26 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:26 -!- GAit 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voxelot [~voxelot@2605:e000:1525:802f:fdfc:5f36:c775:b936] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:06 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-122-14-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:07 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:12 -!- aem [AEM@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-iwdjldssdaftdkxf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17 -!- Luke-Jr [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:18 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:22 -!- kmels [~kmels@190.106.223.124] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:25 < nsh> .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aX-0E07Fpg 06:25 < yoleaux> Hash Proof Systems, Old and New - YouTube 06:25 < nsh> [Simons] 06:27 -!- voxelot [~voxelot@2605:e000:1525:802f:fdfc:5f36:c775:b936] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:28 -!- kmels [~kmels@190.106.223.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@213-245-86-6.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:31 -!- p15 [~p15@22.91.145.64.client.static.strong-tk2.bringover.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:32 < kanzure> not sure if april fool post https://ellipticnews.wordpress.com/2016/03/31/ecdlp-can-be-solved-in-24-th-root-time/ 06:34 * instagibbs imagining how sphere packing would be related to elliptic curves 06:37 -!- RoboTeddy [~roboteddy@c-67-188-40-206.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:56 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56 -!- zwick [~zwick@fsf/member/zwick] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:56 < kanzure> answer seems to be yes it is a foolpost 06:57 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:57 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:58 < kanzure> "AsicBoost - A speedup for bitcoin mining" http://www.math.rwth-aachen.de/~Timo.Hanke/AsicBoostWhitepaperrev5.pdf claims "20% speedup" 07:05 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@213-245-86-6.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 07:17 -!- GAit1 [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:20 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:23 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@designnet.work.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 07:24 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:26 -!- melvster [~melvster@ip-86-49-18-198.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:32 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.71.183.199.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 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has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:03 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:03 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.71.183.199.mobile.tre.se] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:06 -!- Starduster [~SD@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:10 -!- voxelot [~voxelot@remote.digitalmoneycorp.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:13 -!- lnovy [~lnovy@2002:4d57:f055::1] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:13 -!- kmels [~kmels@186.64.110.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@75.133.112.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27 -!- kmels [~kmels@93.166.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 < kanzure> https://github.com/str4d/zcash-pow/blob/master/pow.py 08:31 < kanzure> i believe that's "equihash" like "Asymmetric proof-of-work based on the Generalized Birthday problem" 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luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:00 < Taek> maaku: I had thought flexcap was just Maxwell's higher difficulty proposal, but I see now that there's a whole category of flexible blocksize proposals. 12:01 < Taek> I don't think that a higher difficulty makes as much sense because that requires spinning up more hashrate, which a miner may not be able to do on short notice. Destroying coins is much easier. 12:04 < kanzure> besides the sidechain whitepaper, what's another paper or two about sidechain-like things? 12:05 < kanzure> also, has someone done an economic/finance-oriented perspective on the topic yet? 12:06 < pigeons> petertodd's tree chains are sidechain-like in a way 12:08 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p5DC8ADCC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@p5DC8ADCC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:09 < pigeons> oh the freimarkets paper has the whole tag thing 12:10 * nsh nods 12:11 < kanzure> hrm apparently nobody has mentioned "different monetary policies can be implemented in sidechains" in a paper yet. oops. 12:11 < kanzure> well, besides sidechains.pdf 12:11 < pigeons> http://freico.in/docs/freimarkets-v0.0.1.pdf 12:12 -!- luke-jr_ [~luke-jr@unaffiliated/luke-jr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:13 < pigeons> look in papers about atomic cross-chain swaps too? 12:14 < kanzure> oh that might work 12:16 < kanzure> hrm which ones? 12:17 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:22 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:24 -!- jtimon [~quassel@227.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27 < pigeons> by different monetary policeis you mean like demurrage, interest, different subdisdy emission rates? seems self-evident different chains would have those differences and i dont know any ACCS papers but still come back to freimarkets for a paper exploring that 12:28 < kanzure> "self-evident" yes but not to everyone hehe 12:29 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:29 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:48 -!- Don_John [~Don@251-223-114-134.nat.resnet.nau.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:59 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@46-88-98.adsl.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:04 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.58.105.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:29 -!- johnwhitton [~johnwhitt@c-71-202-223-50.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:34 < proslogion> Can you compress a PCP proof with MAST? 13:48 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:58 -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:06 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ppwofqovdoedhhvi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:09 -!- phiche [~Adium@2.71.183.199.mobile.tre.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:20 -!- psztorc [~psztorc@ool-4575fa8d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com)] 14:22 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:22 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@2.222.73.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:22 -!- kmels-afuera [~kmels@93.166.151.186.static.intelnet.net.gt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:22 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@p4FCCC13D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 14:25 -!- wallet42 [uid154231@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bqmmerqzuxhwiunl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:29 -!- Starduster [~SD@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:32 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:35 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@130.159.234.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:35 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:36 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:50 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE395D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 14:58 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:29e4:c591:b8ef:fc93] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:08 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:29e4:c591:b8ef:fc93] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:08 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@104.193.169-200.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:11 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:15 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17 -!- supasonic [~supasonic@172-11-188-117.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:17 -!- Oizopower [uid19103@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvbmjfcnseducnif] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:26 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@174-25-22-102.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:29 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 15:31 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:32 < maaku> Taek: you don't have to spin up more hash power, you just wait longer for a block 15:32 < maaku> it's an uninteresting point regardless, adjusting subsidy is preferable for weird incentive reasons 15:33 < maaku> pigeons: those papers share authorship ;) 15:33 < maaku> i don't know anyone else who is thinking about different monetary policies 15:34 -!- aem [AEM@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-xzutlbxsjkiidsvd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40 -!- gigq [~gigq@45-20-197-26.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42 -!- jtimon [~quassel@227.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:42 < nsh> this one weird incentive reason will shock you 15:42 < nsh> wait until you see game-theoretical scenario 8!! 15:43 < gwillen> nsh: you might like http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com/ 15:43 < nsh> oo, thanks! 15:43 < gwillen> I don't see the actual punchline immediately on the page there, which is "find a separating hyperplane with this one weird kernel trick" 15:44 < nsh> ' When Pennsylvania machine learning practitioners use this trick many are shocked at the results they find. Most just cannot believe that their test set accuracies are real, but the truth is that it is now easy to learn separating hyperplanes with this one weird trick. ' 15:44 < nsh> ehehe 15:44 < gwillen> :D 15:45 < nsh> there's a paper too apparently. 'The Kardashian Kernel' - http://www.oneweirdkerneltrick.com/sigbovik_2012.pdf 15:45 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@172.58.105.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:45 < gwillen> nsh: yeah, some friends of mine are responsible, sigbovik is an april fools' CS conference at my alma mater 15:46 < gwillen> (this is not from today but some past april fools' day) 15:47 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:50 < nsh> ah, grand :) 15:51 < kanzure> maaku: we should probably coerce someone into writing words down into a pdf about monetary policy possibilities.. with graphs and stuff. 15:53 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54 -!- ruby32d [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:57 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@ool-4a59b2e2.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:58 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04 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luke-jr_ is now known as Luke-Jr 21:00 -!- Tiraspol [~Tiraspol3@unaffiliated/tiraspol] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:04 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:06 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06 -!- epscy [~epscy@176.126.241.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:07 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:16 -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oirwjqkudeyhhfyu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 21:20 -!- supasonic [~supasonic@172-11-188-117.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24 < instagibbs> nsh, that site is my favorite 21:24 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:25 < instagibbs> I like cat basis purrsuit and YOLO, You Only Learn Once, where they simply eliminate the regret from the objective 21:25 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:28 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:29e4:c591:b8ef:fc93] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:42 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-122-14-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:44 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:47 -!- r0ach [~r0ach@107-217-214-192.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 21:48 -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:50 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50 -!- PaulCape_ [~PaulCapes@204.28.124.82] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:52 -!- 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