--- Log opened Tue May 17 00:00:17 2016 00:00 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:06 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fpdrrhpjgeekknkg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:12 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:22 -!- eaxdigitalhash [~eax@41.71.71.178] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:24 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:25 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:28 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:05 -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05 -!- g0lem [~g0lem@50.248.81.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05 -!- g0lem [~bhurp@50.248.81.65] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:06 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:11 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-inoiiitegwmjuerm] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:14 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:16 -!- MaxSan_ [~one@46.19.137.116] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:18 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:25 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:25 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:26 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:30 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:30 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:46 -!- hashtagg [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@94.118.222.153] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@94.118.222.153] has quit [Changing host] 01:51 -!- ielo [~ielo@unaffiliated/lumos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:54 -!- ielo [~ielo@unaffiliated/lumos] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57 < petertodd> anyone know of some up-to-date UTXO age distribution graphs? (or better yet, UTXO priority distribution graphs) 02:05 < iddo> petertodd: not sure if this could be helpful: https://oxt.me/charts , it has BDD 02:18 < petertodd> iddo: not quite what I need, but thanks all the same!w 02:19 < iddo> yes it's just some old link that i bumped into and bookmarked, i don't have anything better :( 02:19 < petertodd> iddo: bdd unfortunately doesn't work for what I'm trying to figure out, because the metric could be almost entirely a few large, old, txouts being spent, with the vast majority of txouts not being included in themetric 02:19 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:22 < iddo> ok if i understand correctly that site does averaging, and you need data without averaging.. 02:22 < iddo> how difficult is it to parse the blockchain and do it yourself? :) 02:23 < petertodd> iddo: it's not *that* difficult, but I was hoping to avoid doing that work - I'll probably just have my paper say those stats need to be analysed in the "Future Work" section :) 02:24 < petertodd> (I was hoping to have finished this on sunday...) 02:25 < iddo> you can try reversed roles, instead of other people hiring you to do all sorts of tasks, you can hire someone to do tedious work for you:) 02:28 < petertodd> iddo: heh, I'm not even getting properly paid for this! BTCC is the only entity sponsoring my Bitcoin work right now, and this month I'm going to spend a lot more time working on Core than the 15hrs/month they're paying for 02:28 < petertodd> this paper alone has probably been 15-20 hours of work 02:29 < iddo> what's the paper about? if it's not a secret 02:29 < iddo> is it the solution to all of our problems..? :) 02:29 < petertodd> iddo: I'm finally writing up TXO commitments - the solution to all of our problems 02:31 < iddo> ok i googled, looking here http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2015/peter-todd-scalability/ 02:32 < petertodd> oh cool! I'd forgotten about that 02:33 < smooth> iddo: its very easy to use the restful api in core, i did it last year in few hours to measure somethign similar 02:34 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:34 < iddo> ok.. 02:35 < iddo> petertodd: TXO commitments require consensus on the UTXO set? 02:35 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:35 < petertodd> iddo: yup... but uh... bitcoin requires consensus on the UTXO set in general! :) 02:36 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:36 < iddo> i mean, consensus on a particular representation of UTXO set, which bitcoin doesn't require now.. 02:37 < petertodd> yeah, TXO commitments definitely sets that in stone 02:39 < iddo> would it be a controversial softfork? miners will need to do a little more work to verify that the committed UTXO set is in the right format, but SPV clients benefit a lot? 02:39 < iddo> also, can it be done as a softfork? so old clients won't reject this new stuff? 02:39 < petertodd> yes! so far no-one has come up with a way to make TXO commitments fast enough; my paper is proposing a way to sidestep the problem 02:40 < petertodd> yup, this is 100% a soft-fork 02:40 < iddo> cool 02:41 < iddo> i remember that you once told me that the complex ways to represent UTXO are overkill, simple way is probably better.. 02:42 < petertodd> yeah, though just wait till you see what my paper proposes - I may be a bit of a hypocrit there :) 02:42 < iddo> ok:) 02:44 < iddo> btw here is my new work, nothing really useful like that stuff that you do though... 02:44 < iddo> behold, bitcoin beacon http://arxiv.org/abs/1605.04559 02:45 < petertodd> oh good - I was hoping someone would write up that idea properly! 02:45 < petertodd> anyway, bbl, better finish this paper off before I get distracted :) 02:50 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined 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07:55 -!- GAit [~GAit@212.91.77.40] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:58 -!- contrapumpkin is now known as copumpkin 08:07 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-172-251-161-231.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:11 -!- damethos [~damethos@unaffiliated/damethos] has quit [Quit: Bye] 08:24 -!- nabu [~nabu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nabu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:24 < kanzure> "In case the adversary has an infinite budget, we provide an impossibility result that stems from the similarity between the Bitcoin model and Santha-Vazirani sources." 08:24 < kanzure> "bitcoin beacon" http://arxiv.org/abs/1605.04559 08:26 -!- nabu [~nabu@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/nabu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:28 < kanzure> about txo commitments: 08:29 < kanzure> https://s3.amazonaws.com/peter.todd/bitcoin-wizards-13-10-17.log 08:29 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=314467.0 08:29 < kanzure> https://botbot.me/freenode/bitcoin-core-dev/2015-12-28/?msg=56907496&page=2 08:29 < kanzure> about utxo commitments: 08:29 < kanzure> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/namecoin_that_sucks_less 08:29 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1048021.0 08:29 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1056866.0 08:29 < kanzure> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1129695.0 08:29 < kanzure> http://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2013-November/003714.html 08:30 < kanzure> https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/3977 08:30 < kanzure> http://rustyrussell.github.io/pettycoin/2014/11/29/Pettycoin-Revisted-Part-I:-UTXO-Commitments.html 08:30 < kanzure> http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-09-18.log 08:31 < kanzure> http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/bitcoin/scalingbitcoin-review.pdf 08:31 -!- GAit [~GAit@212.91.77.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:33 -!- GAit [~GAit@212.91.77.40] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:33 -!- GAit [~GAit@212.91.77.40] has quit 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[~GAit@212.91.77.40] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:50 -!- domwoe [~domwoe@mtec-20090.media.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:53 -!- GAit [~GAit@212.91.77.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:55 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56 -!- Church- [~hatter@ool-18ba1c0d.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:56 -!- Church- [~hatter@ool-18ba1c0d.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:56 -!- Church- [~hatter@unaffiliated/church-] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00 -!- domwoe [~domwoe@mtec-20090.media.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04 -!- zooko` [~user@173-8-240-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04 -!- zooko [~user@173-8-240-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11 -!- nivah [~linker@27.75.158.22] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:14 -!- jtimon [~quassel@162.29.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15 -!- bit2017 [~linker@27.75.158.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:23 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:23 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:24 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:25 -!- hashtag [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:31 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:31 < kanzure> "Making UTXO Set Growth Irrelevant With Low-Latency Delayed TXO Commitments" https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2016-May/012715.html 10:36 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:36 < kanzure> petertodd: have you looked at bramc's high-performance merkle set stuff? 10:37 < kanzure> petertodd: https://github.com/bramcohen/MerkleSet 10:37 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.117.70] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:40 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:2161:6613:8308:eab] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:41 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:42 -!- zooko [~user@50.141.117.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:44 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:50 -!- zooko` [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:2161:6613:8308:eab] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:50 -!- zooko [~user@2601:281:8000:8387:2161:6613:8308:eab] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:57 -!- domwoe [~domwoe@mtec-20090.media.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:00 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-172-251-161-231.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01 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blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 < kanzure> about smart contracts and bitcoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1427885.msg14601127#msg14601127 12:58 -!- domwoe [~domwoe@mtec-20090.media.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00 -!- pavel_ [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:00 -!- pavel_ [~paveljani@79-98-72-216.sys-data.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01 < petertodd> kanzure: yeah, I discussed it with bramc at the practical crypo conf a few months ago in stanford 13:02 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02 < petertodd> kanzure: keep in mind, I mainly wrote that paper because I wanted to dispell the idea that TXO commitments weren't possible; I'd be delighted if a sufficiently high performance implementation was available to avoid the delay 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15:13 -!- MaxSan_ [~one@185.103.96.143] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:14 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14 < fluffypony> http://blog.coinfabrik.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/ECDSA-Security-in-Bitcoin-and-Ethereum-a-Research-Survey.pdf 15:14 -!- MaxSan_1 [~one@www17.redstation.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17 -!- tromp_ [~tromp@ool-18be0bd8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:20 < kanzure> fluffypony: if i hadn't stopped to read it, i would have pasted that a few minutes earlier. drats. 15:21 < fluffypony> does this mean I beat kanzure at typing ? 15:21 < fluffypony> :-P 15:27 < nsh> 'Using the computer algebra system PARI, one easily verifies that #E(F_p) = 1.r with prime r = 2^256 - 2^219 - 1' 15:27 < nsh> if it was that easy, they could have linked to a transcript 15:30 < nsh> here's one for interest: http://people.math.umass.edu/~siman/10.797N/pari-session 15:34 -!- hashtag 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