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04:16 < waxwing> this looks interesting, does anyone have a link to the pdf/slides? http://bitcoinference.com/2015/How-Perfect-Offline-Wallets-Can-Still-Leak-Bitcoin-Private-Keys.html
04:18 < r0ach> some horrific pulse width modulation on that display
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04:22 < nsh> isn't it [just] ECDSA nonce reuse leakage,?
04:22 < nsh> here's the paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1501.00447
04:24 < nsh> (i think it might be possible to use a hierarchical deterministic privkey algorithm to preclude reuse of nonces by used stuffing a probabilistic data structure that accumulates used nonces
04:24 < nsh> maybe tricky but)
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04:28 < nsh> (preferable to switch to patent-free non-footshooty signature system if/when opportunity arises)
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09:38 < maaku> kanzure: there's some attributions in those notes...
09:38 < maaku> look at the asicboost section in particular
09:40 < maaku> i don't know if that's an issue or not actually, just mentioning
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10:26 < kanzure> maaku: yes there was some excerpts from irc messages i had received, good point
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13:59 < kanzure> "Multi-party channels" https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/lightning-dev/2016-May/000543.html
14:02 < gwillen> kanzure: oooooh.
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14:02 < kanzure> in zurich, i had a conversation over dinner with instagibbs and maaku about multi-party payment channels in lightning
14:02 < kanzure> instagibbs had mentioned that someone (poon?) had sent to a mailing list a writeup about why multi-party doesn't work for lightning payment channels
14:03 < kanzure> my contention was that you could probably make a system where if one party cheats that you could check which signature was used for cheating and then boot them out of the multisig pool or something
14:03 < kanzure> .... sorry for all the non-details :).
14:04 < gwillen> haha, no worries
14:04 < gwillen> I'm very excited about this, though. Sharing the 'posted bonds' in lightning among multiple channels seems big to me in terms of the practicality of the system.
14:04 < gwillen> (or among more than two parties to a single channel.)
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14:11 < maaku> kanzure: yes, but our back of napkin result was that it would take k*O((n-1)!) signatures per channel update, where n is the number of parties and k the number of signatures normally required for a bidirectional channel
14:11 < maaku> so it might make sense for n=3, but I'm doubtful for other reasons. n=4 and above is probably out of the question
14:12 < maaku> actually k*O(n! - 1)
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14:18 < gwillen> maaku: what about the scenario where updates only have to be signed by (1) participants who lose value in the update and (2) the distinguished 'hub' node?
14:18 < gwillen> Do you think that could improve on that?
14:19 < maaku> gwillen: maybe.. i might have to whiteboard that
14:19 < maaku> but yes that would change it considerably
14:19  * gwillen nods
14:20 < maaku> gwillen: i'm not sure it's a simple thing to do that at least with the primritives bitcoin script has available, but someone should try
14:23 < instagibbs> kanzure, I do not doubt that an ok solution exists, but the only one I think works without "big" softforks don't scale well
14:23 < instagibbs> jl2012 and I discussed this a few days ago in scrollback
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14:25  * instagibbs notices email, reads
14:27 < jl2012> I multiway payment channel with the locktime approach is more efficient than LN approach
14:28 < jl2012> I think....
14:28 < instagibbs> jl2012, I did more thinking and don't get how csv would work, but it's possible I'm an idiot. The initial funding transaction gets published... can't csv that
14:30 < jl2012> initial funding tx (published) --> n-of-n (unpublished, no locktime) --> invalidation chain (unpublished, BIP68 locktime)
14:32 < jl2012> if everyone cooperate, the n-of-n tx should never be published
14:33 < jl2012> otherwise, publish it and wait for the invalidation to mature
14:33 < jl2012> so the channel could be opened indefinitely
14:35 < instagibbs> oh duh
14:37 < jl2012> don't need CSV (BIP112), I think
14:40 < instagibbs> original construction was nlocktime only, so makes sense
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--- Log closed Sat May 28 00:00:13 2016