--- Log opened Mon Jun 20 00:00:35 2016 00:02 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:06 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:08 -!- rusty2 [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:12 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-122-14-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:31 -!- mountaingoat [~mountaing@unaffiliated/mountaingoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:32 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:43 -!- mountaingoat [~mountaing@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mountaingoat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:46 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:47 -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:51 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:03 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03 -!- kanzure [~kanzure@unaffiliated/kanzure] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:10 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@199.15.128.146] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:10 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:16 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@199.15.128.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:32 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@154.153-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41 -!- Davasny_ [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:44 -!- heretolearn [uid110997@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wmefizlfimjwudhm] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:44 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:11 < JackH> has op_csv locked in? 02:26 < btcdrak> JackH: not yet. Check back in 30 hours 02:28 < btcdrak> oh less 121 blocks to go 02:28 < JackH> this is about right: http://api.qbit.ninja/versionstats ? 02:29 < JackH> "proposal": "CSV", 02:29 < JackH> "count": 1909, 02:29 < JackH> "percentage": 94.692460317460316 02:29 < btcdrak> JackH: we need 1916 blocks, we currently have 1829 02:29 < JackH> ahh 02:29 < JackH> gotcha 02:30 < btcdrak> after another 87 signalling blocks, then we are technically at point of no return for lockin, although the state change wont happen until the retarget 02:31 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31 < btcdrak> assuming that happens, activation will occur on block 419328 02:35 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:39 < btcdrak> JackH: seems the qbit thing isnt correct for the "last2016" entry. it's doing a rolling count, which is not relevant for BIP9. 02:40 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@178-88-119.dynamic.cyta.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:41 < JackH> where are you checking btcdrak ? 02:41 < btcdrak> direct from my bitcoind 02:54 -!- libertalis [~libertali@c-73-207-38-154.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54 -!- libertalis [~libertali@158.58.172.55.adsl.inet-telecom.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:09 -!- digitalmagus2 [digitalmag@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:15 -!- jannes [~jannes@178.132.211.90] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:15 -!- digitalmagus8 [digitalmag@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:21 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aapoxfipfxnxnsst] has quit [Quit:05:53 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-bkljivborionmsio] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:55 -!- null_radix [Elite7851@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-jqnrowzycudavwqn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- edvorg 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#bitcoin-wizards 06:42 -!- Davasny__ [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:42 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45 -!- Davasny_ [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:12 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:14 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-122-14-46-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:29 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-186-51.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35 -!- raedah [~x@172.56.42.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36 -!- raedah [~x@172.56.42.64] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:42 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:58 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-186-51.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:13 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-186-51.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:14 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-186-51.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:20 -!- Sosumi [~Leon@bl10-113-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:24 -!- Tenhi_ [~tenhi@static.177.80.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:31 -!- roman_ [~quassel@2a01:cb1d:4a4:2e00:f50a:7317:89b2:a23a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:34 -!- Tenhi_ [~tenhi@static.177.80.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has quit [K-Lined] 08:37 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:38 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:43 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:10 -!- digitalmagus [~wahtever4@unaffiliated/digitalmagus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@204.148.52.86] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:15 < kanzure> idris/smart contract things http://publications.lib.chalmers.se/records/fulltext/234939/234939.pdf 09:20 < buZz> cause you didnt loose enough money yet 09:20 < buZz> kanzure: enjoy :) 09:20 < kanzure> wtf? 09:21 < buZz> oh sorry, i'll retract my offer of enjoyment 09:22 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 < maaku> kanzure: thanks, great link 09:32 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@213-245-86-6.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:33 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@213-245-86-6.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:48 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:50 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:55 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:57 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@2-228-102-101.ip191.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:57 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:57 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09 -!- nonaTure [~nonaTure@204.148.52.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:21 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:25 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:37 < JackH> ;;getblock 10:37 < gribble> Error: "getblock" is not a valid command. 10:45 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:49 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:50 < kanzure> 10:49 <+kanzure> describe your coq chips 10:50 < kanzure> 10:49 <+sbp> proof engine is burned into a chip. no code executes ever which does not come with proofs of how it runs 10:51 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:56 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56 < kanzure> https://www.andres-loeh.de/LambdaPi/LambdaPi.pdf 10:57 < kanzure> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/people/dimitris/pie.pdf 11:00 < bsm117532> I'm going to follow Kanzure and just paste links I'm reading... ;-) 11:00 < bsm117532> http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0893965910001308 11:00 < bsm117532> e.g. for sharing a hash preimage as a secret, used in a hash-locked txn P2SH... 11:02 < kanzure> "An efficient multi-use multi-secret sharing scheme based on hash function" 11:03 < kanzure> "Vertebrate brains and evolutionary connectomics: on the origins of the mammalian 'neocortex'" https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Harvey_Karten/publication/283648861_Vertebrate_brains_and_evolutionary_connectomics_On_the_origins_of_the_mammalian_'neocortex'/links/566fb1ac08aec0bb67bf17ad.pdf 11:03 < kanzure> wait, no, wrong channel 11:03 < kanzure> "Dependent types without the sugar" http://www.cs.nott.ac.uk/~psztxa/publ/pisigma-new.pdf 11:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:19 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.186.80.50] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:20 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.186.80.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:22 < nsh> otoh, your face complicates a metatheoretic study and is a potential source of bugs 11:22 < nsh> +al 11:23 < nsh> (i approve of the approach here though. use a series of metalanguage to keep the formal definition of any one within formal tractability) 11:23 < nsh> 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[~NewLibert@2602:306:330b:2db0:bcb1:2476:92d6:9f71] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:05 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:10 -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:24 -!- EtherPro [~FoxDay@37.142.20.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:24 < EtherPro> Slockit released the Ethereum Computer.. with the ETHOS seems cool check this out: http://ether-computer.com/ 18:25 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29 -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31 -!- N0S4A2 [~weechat@216-243-38-141.users.condointernet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 18:32 < nsh> lol 18:43 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] 18:44 < smooth> i wish i were brave enough to click that link and see what lulz await 18:45 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+o gmaxwell] by ChanServ 18:45 -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [-o gmaxwell] by gmaxwell 18:46 -!- _anthony_ [~anthony@ec2-54-164-183-56.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:50 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@freebsd/user/stqism] has quit [Quit: Like 3 fire emojis lit rn 🔥🔥🔥] 18:50 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@irc.tox.im] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:52 < bsm1175321> smooth: curl is your friend 18:53 < gmaxwell> curl has had remotely explotable vulnerablities in the past. 18:55 < bsm1175321> wget then? 19:09 -!- drzw [~bbb@31.3.154.119] has quit [] 19:10 -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13 -!- N0S4A2 [~weechat@216-243-38-141.users.condointernet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:14 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:16 -!- coup_de_shitlord is now known as stqism 19:16 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@irc.tox.im] has quit [Changing host] 19:16 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@freebsd/user/stqism] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:21 -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-htqheglrxrdfhskv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:21 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:24 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@freebsd/user/stqism] has quit [Quit: Like 3 fire emojis lit rn 🔥🔥🔥] 19:25 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@irc.tox.im] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:26 -!- coup_de_shitlord is now known as coup 19:26 -!- coup is now known as stqism 19:26 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@irc.tox.im] has quit [Changing host] 19:26 -!- stqism [~coup_de_s@freebsd/user/stqism] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:28 -!- hashtag [~hashtag@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28 -!- alpalp [~allen@unaffiliated/alpalp] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 19:41 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:51 -!- bit2017 [~linker@115.79.43.208] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:56 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:58 -!- adamg [~akg@50.242.93.33] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:03 -!- waxwing [~waxwing@62.205.214.125] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:05 -!- zooko [~user@c-73-229-199-227.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:09 -!- CrazyTruthYakDDS [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-arogcbjbkvvxycrz] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:09 -!- PERSIAN [~PERSIAN@MTRLPQ4709W-LP130-05-1279284515.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:21 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:21 -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:32 -!- c0rw1n- [~c0rw1n@154.153-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:34 -!- tunafizz [tunafizz@c-71-207-55-31.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:35 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:39 -!- nuke1989 [~nuke@178-88-119.dynamic.cyta.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41 < smooth> 1 20:47 -!- _anthony_ [~anthony@ec2-54-164-183-56.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.3] 20:52 -!- Sosumi [~Leon@bl10-113-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:00 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01 -!- freekevin [freekevin@gateway/shell/xshellz/x-tfkeqmsmlthpwxye] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:02 -!- PERSIAN [~PERSIAN@MTRLPQ4709W-LP130-05-1279284515.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:12 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@ip68-97-35-223.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:13 -!- Jeremy_Rand_2 [~user@ip68-97-35-223.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #bitcoin-wizards ["Konversation terminated!"] 21:15 -!- maaku_ [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:15 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27 -!- frankenmint [~frankenmi@67-5-211-132.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:35 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:40 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:44 -!- bramc [634b58ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.75.88.206] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:44 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:45 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:46 < bramc> I just had the rather embarrassing realization that I've been assuming that memory lookups act like disk lookups but faster, with the normal behavior being that whenever you pull a memory location into cache its whole neighborhood gets pulled with it. Reading over how memory caches work on wikipedia now, I'm not sure if that's true. 21:46 < bramc> Or rather, I'm not sure how close to true it is. 21:47 < bramc> The thing I've been working on makes perfect sense as an on-disk data structure 21:47 < bsm1175321> it's paged, yes. 21:48 < bramc> How big are the pages? 21:48 < bsm1175321> But so are disks. 21:48 < bsm1175321> 4kb usually 21:48 < bsm1175321> http://igoro.com/archive/gallery-of-processor-cache-effects/ 21:49 < bsm1175321> 4kb for disk, 64 bytes for L1, according to this. 21:50 < katu_> bramc: usually, the kernel speculatively reads ahead 21:50 < katu_> between 128k and several megabytes, depending on io pressure and free buffer cache 21:51 < bramc> For disks the local affinity is even stronger because the whole read or write can be done at once, even if it spans multiple pages 21:51 < bsm1175321> bramc: Yes adjacent reads on spinning rust are faster. That shouldn't be true on RAM or flash though. 21:51 < bsm1175321> According to /proc/cpuinfo, ache_alignment is 64 which I think is the relevant value for me. 21:52 < katu_> well, cachelines work slightly differently 21:52 < katu_> depends if the dram channel is free or not 21:52 < katu_> if it is, they're fetched in parallel, otherwise cacheline waits 21:52 < katu_> ie a lot like raid stripes 21:53 < bramc> My whole thing is based on there being a 'block', which is an allocated chunk of memory which generally has the property that if you some of it into cache then usually most of it gets pulled into cache 21:54 < katu_> with ram, that can be assumed only on cacheline granularity 21:54 < bramc> And cachelines are extremely small 21:54 < katu_> not necessarily 21:54 < bsm1175321> Meanwhile /me just wrote several paragraphs about how to make block-validation time irrelevant... 21:54 < katu_> for example gpus do large fetches, up to 64kb 21:55 < katu_> because high the massive bandwidth they have can afford it 21:55 < katu_> and this avoids contention for channel between threads 21:55 < bramc> What about CPUs? wikipedia says their cache lines are about 128 bytes 21:55 < katu_> bramc: can be anything between 16 and 256 bytes 21:55 < bramc> katu_: I'd call that extremely small 21:56 < katu_> 64 or 128 is usually assumed as average for desktop cpus. 21:56 < bsm1175321> Nvidia Fermi and Kepler have 128-byte cache lines. 21:57 < bsm1175321> I'm guessing this is the bus width... 21:57 < bramc> Although maybe for in-memory stuff the cache misses don't matter so much and my stuff should be assumed to be optimized for on-disk performance and high memory efficiency. 21:57 < katu_> bsm1175321: nah, there actually is cacheline this small at lowest level 21:58 < katu_> but it majority of latency is the thread/global cache contention (a bit like l2, except l2 on cpus does not have radically higher granularity), not l1 21:59 < katu_> bramc: depends entirely how much you stream. if its random probing accesses like scrypt, depends on cache a lot 22:00 < katu_> if its some proof of space scheme spanning several gigabytes, cachelines wont matter that much, imo (assuming you read in sequence most of the time) 22:00 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:00 < bramc> My favored proof of space scheme involves very simple localized reads, but that's not what I'm working on at the moment. At the moment I'm working on a merkle tree. 22:01 < katu_> depends on how you organize it 22:01 < bsm1175321> bramc: There's an optimization here that maybe you're not considering... We can group the contents of the mempool into the same page (or nearby pages) so that when a block comes, there's a very high chance the majority of it will be in the mempool-optimized bucket of the hash, and have few cache misses. 22:01 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01 < katu_> some sort of binary heap, skiplist, btree 22:01 < katu_> skiplist would be probably worst 22:01 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:02 < bramc> katu_: I'm working on a merkle tree. These things suck. 22:02 < katu_> no idea what nature of lookups you do there so its hard to say 22:03 < katu_> but i'd not rely on random access having high latencies much 22:03 < bsm1175321> katu_: It's basically the worst possible data structure for caching. 22:03 < katu_> that can be easily defeated by high bandwidth+high latency+high parallelism 22:03 < katu_> ie just like it happened for scrypt 22:03 < bramc> katu_: This is for utxo commitments, not proofs of work 22:03 < katu_> oh 22:03 < bramc> So in this case latencies are all bad. 22:04 < bsm1175321> bramc I think you can get a whole long way by organizing the UTXO set using a probabilistic model: In mempool is highest priority. Known re-use addresses as second priority. Satoshi's coins as lowest priority. 22:04 < bsm1175321> Use that to assign buckets in your hash table. 22:05 < bramc> bsm1175321: I'm assuming everything isn't in the mempool, trying to make the worst case not a problem. 22:05 < bsm1175321> bramc: Ok, dig your own grave. ;-) 22:06 < bsm1175321> Meanwhile I'm working on the time required to verify a commitment not matter. ;-) 22:06 < bsm1175321> Also, grammar. 22:06 < katu_> i dont see this that bad, assuming you have reasonable index of whatever you look up often 22:06 < bramc> Somebody else can worry about mempool optimizations. They should already be in there. 22:06 < bramc> I want to assume a totally random set of stuff in the utxo set gets spent every block 22:07 < bsm1175321> Why assume totally random? You've just created the problem... 22:08 < bramc> Because if it works in the worst case, it works in every case 22:09 < bsm1175321> FWIW, I had hoped that by allowing blocks to have multiple parents and moving to a DAG instead of a linked list, I could allow a "block" to be a transaction. (the extreme of random access) However I've found that without extreme gymnastics, the tx rate cannot be more than about 100x faster than Bitcoin (e.g. ~ 6s block time) in order to achieve consensus. 22:10 < bsm1175321> In other words, at today's transaction rates of ~1000 tx/block, you're already in the regime where doing away with a mempool and the p2p layer is impossible, for consensus reasons. 22:12 < bsm1175321> As you and I have discussed before, this is fundamentally related to the size of the Earth, and a ~few second round trip time. So optimizing for the mempool, or whatever p2p tells you, is a shortcut that's relevant now and will become more relevant in the future. 22:20 < bramc> Right now I'm very narrowly focused on Bitcoin as it exists today 22:22 < bsm1175321> Can't make caches faster with software. We need to fix Satoshi's design flaw. The network is not synchronous. 22:23 -!- mrpocoyo [~renlord@59.167.194.21] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:23 < bsm1175321> You're optimizing for an operation that needs to be zero time, because the assumption is that the network is synchronous, and it only becomes synchronous in the limit that (validation time) -> 0. It's the assumption that's flawed, and Satoshi's original design. There are other ways to fix it. 22:28 -!- roidster [~chatzilla@71-95-154-155.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:08 -!- N0S4A2 [~weechat@216-243-38-141.users.condointernet.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.5] 23:08 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18 -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:19 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:34 -!- bramc [634b58ce@gateway/web/freenode/ip.99.75.88.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:37 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37 -!- netsinn [~jiggalato@198.16.176.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:57 -!- bustd_soket [~weechat@unaffiliated/loteriety] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] --- Log closed Tue Jun 21 00:00:35 2016