--- Log opened Tue Jun 21 00:00:35 2016
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01:24 < JackH> so CSV has locked in now
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06:37 < EtherPro> Slockit released the Ethereum computer omg.. www.ether-computer.com
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06:38 < fluffypony> argh can't someone please block that guy
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06:44 < instagibbs> This is sort of like advertising a MtGox hardware wallet right after MtGox imploded
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06:45 < kanzure> https://github.com/amiller/CoinCoq
06:45 < kanzure> https://github.com/amiller/CoinCoq/blob/master/BitcoinScript.v
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06:48 < fluffypony> tks wumpus
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07:27 < nsh> .g bitcoin CSV BIP
07:27 < yoleaux> nsh: Sorry, that command (.g) crashed.
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07:55 < fluffypony> lol nsh, sorry for you
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08:03 < amiller> kanzure, lol, i didn't remember that at all
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08:03 < amiller> january 2012
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10:03 < bsm1175321> I'm writing up my slides for the "On Chain Scaling" conference.  They're given me one of the first talk slots, so I'd like to carefully frame the problem in my intro.  What are some good references for the consequences of scaling, or points you'd like to see discussed?  I intend to hit: larger blocksize, segwit, orphans, selfish mining.
10:04 < bsm1175321> One thing I'd like some references on is the argument that larger block sizes "causes centralization".
10:04 < bsm1175321> I'll also hit SPV mining...
10:08 < katu_> i doubt its a primary cause people sometimes peddle it as
10:08 < katu_> however slow prop definitely causes spv mining
10:09 < katu_> (primary cause of pooling i mean)
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11:07 < JackH> !seen maaku_
11:07 < gribble> maaku_ was last seen in #bitcoin-wizards 3 weeks, 2 days, 1 hour, 21 minutes, and 34 seconds ago: <maaku_> bsm117532: not everyone is double-digit percentages of the network
11:07 < JackH> !seen maaku
11:07 < gribble> maaku was last seen in #bitcoin-wizards 1 day, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <maaku> kanzure: thanks, great link
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11:54 < PeterR> "One thing I'd like some references on is the argument that larger block sizes 'causes centralization'" -- bsm1175321
11:54 < PeterR> Me too.  I've never understood the arguments behind this.
11:55 < PeterR> Another one is "Large miners will make big blocks which propagate slowly in order to disadvantage smaller miners."
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12:21 < maaku_> JackH: looking for me?
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12:46 < Anduck> PeterR: bigger blocks = more resources needed. -> those who don't have enough resources can't use bitcoin 100%-equal to others
12:47 < Anduck> more resources by an individual. because you need the node for *yourself* to be part of bitcoin. you're not supposed to be happy to just be able to connect to some "trusted" node
12:48 < PeterR> Yes agreed.  And a reference for this would be the Cornell paper where the showed that at 4MB, 10% of the nodes would be unable to "keep up."
12:48 < PeterR> And 50% of the nodes would be unable to keep up at 37MB.
12:48 < PeterR> http://fc16.ifca.ai/bitcoin/papers/CDE+16.pdf
12:49 < midnightmagic> PeterR: Since it seems it's going to fall to me, I just wanted to ask you personally. Given the fairly significant provocation from your direction (e.g. the creation and/or promotion of cartoons where people are crushed to death; the insults and belittling; the general uncivility) I'm going to ask you to please leave here of your own accord.
12:49 < Anduck> keep up is not enough. you need to be able to share information. if you can't share like others can, you're not 100% equal to them
12:49 < PeterR> (midnightmagic: personal comments are off topic here)
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12:50 < Anduck> well, tbh your question would be more suitable for #bitcoin, too.. :)
12:50 < PeterR> It was Bob's question.
12:52 <@midnightmagic> PeterR: I mean no personal disrespect. I just think that everyone else's hands appear to be politically tied as a result of the extreme provocation and oppotunistic criminality surrounding the issue. Please leave.
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12:58 < PeterR> Anduck: anyways, I agree that ceteris paribus bigger blocks requires more resources (centralizing).  But bigger blocks is also correlated with increased usage (decentralizing).
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13:00 < fluffypony> bsm1175321: I'm three talks after you, last one on that day
13:01 < fluffypony> I mention braids in my talk, albeit briefly :)
13:01 < Anduck> yes, but the model where there are lots of people paying little fees (like $0.05 per transaction) still cost the same amount of bytes. $0.05 doesn't pay for those bytes.
13:01 <@midnightmagic> PeterR: Given that you responded to my first request, I'm currently assuming you are in fact reading my requests. Your past venom and provocation have created an atmosphere of distrust, anger, resentment, and the people using your comments as weapons are in some cases opportunistically criminal. I'm trying to ask nicely out of respect for civil discourse.
13:03 <@midnightmagic> Oh well.
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13:19 < JackH> hi maaku_ still here?
13:19 < instagibbs> JackH, just ask
13:19 < instagibbs> he'll get back to you
13:20 < JackH> well I wanted further elaboration on CSV as he mentions here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/4p4klg/bitcoin_core_project_the_csv_soft_fork_has/
13:20 < JackH> so basically I wanted to see if he had 5 in PM
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13:24 < kanzure> midnightmagic: i disagree with the "tied" comment but whatever
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16:29 < kanzure> "Making smart contracts smarter" http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~loiluu/papers/oyente.pdf
16:33 < bsm1175321> Let me count the ways...don't make an abstract state machine.  Use a proof-oriented language like ML or Prolog.  I really don't want to dig through the assembly language generated for your bizarre never-before-seen state machine to figure out if there are exploits.  No one has time for that shit, especially not lawyers.
16:34 < bsm1175321> OTOH how to recruit people to your project: create a never-before-seen abstract state machine that needs compiler writers (hey I took a class in that!!!)
16:34 < bsm1175321> Aaaand as we speak I'm missing this: http://www.meetup.com/IC3-NYC-Blockchain-Meetup/events/231588722/
16:35 < bsm1175321> Is Emin the owner of the sub-DAO?
16:37 < fluffypony> doubtful
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16:40 < fluffypony> https://blog.blockstack.org/solar-storm-a-serious-security-exploit-with-ethereum-not-just-the-dao-a03d797d98fa
16:44 < othe> fun
16:54 < kanzure> "How good is the chance of building a moderately sized quantum computer?" http://s13.zetaboards.com/Crypto/topic/7457176/1/
16:54 < kanzure> from https://www.cryptologie.net/article/334/nist-and-quantum-computers/
16:54 < kanzure> (someone still uses zetaboards? what's going on here?)
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