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02:40 < musalbas> what's the consensus nowadays with using the bitcoin blockchain as a proof-of-existence medium? i've been thoroughly researching this over the past few days (petertodd's analysis on bitcoin-dev in '14 was helpful), and came to the conclusion there really isn't a good alternative to proof-of-existence for some applications than the bitcoin blockchain
02:41 < musalbas> in particular, i'd like to use proof-of-existence as a way to audit software update logs, to create a condition such that you can only push out software updates to everyone or no one, so no targeted updates
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02:52 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> musalbas: I've heard of some people using Namecoin's blockchain for this.  It's unclear to me whether doing so is a good idea or whether doing so will scale to any useful level.
02:53 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> (that's not because I think it's a bad idea, I just haven't crunched any numbers to see if it makes sense)
02:54 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: it's very easy to scale this by using merkle trees - you can secure an infinite amount of software updates using one hash in one transaction
02:55 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> musalbas: yes.  I was more thinking of scalability in terms of the number of software devs who might be issuing updates, and the frequency that they might issue those updates.
02:55 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> It's entirely possible that it scales fine, I just haven't thought about it in any significant level of detail
02:56 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> Namecoin does have the (slight) advantage over Bitcoin in that it has built-in updating of name values, which might be useful for this application.
02:57 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: yup if in theory 10k software devs starting using this, it might be a problem. however in practice, most software comes from a central repo - like the Debian repo, Apple App Store, npm, pip, etc - and you only need one hash every few hours per repo
02:58 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: the problem I have with using other blockchains is that they are significantly less secure than Bitcoin's, which is quite important in this use case. because if the FBI for example wanted to attack it, they could do a Sybil attack again let's say an iPhone's WiFi network, and make it connect to only Bitcoin nodes it controls. then it could spend $50k on mining a bunch of blocks that match to a malicious update, and push it
02:58 < musalbas> via its nodes, and the rest of the network would never see those blocks
02:58 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: so the hashpower of a blockchain is important to this threat model
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02:59 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: however you're right, you could use Namecoin for this, though the tradeoff would be having to wait longer for more confirmations for the same security
02:59 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> musalbas: yes, other chains have lower hashrate than Bitcoin.  That may or may not offset Namecoin's advantages in having name update validity backed by PoW, depending on the threat model
03:00 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> I haven't checked Namecoin's hashrate relative to Bitcoin lately; I believe a new large pool started mining Namecoin last week, so at the next retarget Namecoin should jump up a lot (if it hasn't already)
03:02 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> IMO, though, if state-backed attackers are considered a serious adversary, then any cryptocurrency is suspect, given that they all have a majority hashrate in a single jurisdiction (China)
03:03 < musalbas> Jeremy_Rand: that's a good point
03:06 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> musalbas: one could also argue that because Namecoin blocks are smaller than Bitcoin blocks, it's less vulnerable to the mining centralization that Bitcoin has due to Bitcoin Relay Network.  But I think that would miss the bigger point that all the cryptocurrencies need to improve on the mining centralization issue.
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05:43 < petertodd> musalbas: I think you mean proof-of-publication, not proof-of-existence (which is just timestamping)
05:46 < musalbas> petertodd, yes fair enough
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10:52 < JackH> where do we have some good info for assets issuance via sidechains?
10:52 < JackH> because the whitepaper only explains it very little, and its also old info
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12:06 < pigeons> last time i looked into it best info was jtimons multiaset branch of elements alpha
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13:26 < JackH> if anyone wants to give this a go: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1545881
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13:34 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
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13:49 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
13:51 < eragmus> midnightmagic: See spammer above.
13:51 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
13:51 < eragmus> oddishh: Hello scammer spammer :)
13:51 < oddishh> you stupid doubter
13:51 < oddishh> you fool
13:51 < oddishh> i could sue you
13:51 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> And there I was thinking scam spam was only a thing on weekdays.
13:51 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
13:52 < eragmus> oddishh: You could, but will you? What if I counter-sue you?
13:52 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
13:52 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> Ooh, sue me too.  I've always wanted to get sued and then ignore it.
13:53 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!!
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13:55 < qpm> tx:<Jeremy_Rand> midnightmagic: I don't know if you've contacted Freenode's abuse dept about this yet, but the distraction is starting to become annoying enough that it might be worth doing so.
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13:55 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!!!
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14:07 <@midnightmagic> Freenode can't actually do anything.
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14:07 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!
14:07 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!!
14:07 < oddishh> WOW! My bitcoin expander is now READY! Put some bitcoin in my wallet and I'll intantly expand it & send you more back. Totally vouched & legit. PM me to begin!!!
14:07 < musalbas> heh: http://0bin.net/paste/pF5J+8NyoIcH16Sg#OfLH7t213I8EtDw-xBe2OGl4Fhy07CMiGvcJkieQJaM
14:08 -!- oddishh was kicked from #bitcoin-wizards by midnightmagic [oddishh]
14:08 < pigeons> lol
14:09 < fluffypony> "totally vouched and legit"
14:10 < fluffypony> musalbas: lol
14:10 < musalbas> i like playing with scammers
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14:17 < braenaru> awww he was kicked
14:17 < braenaru> i was all ready to mess with him further
14:19 < braenaru> someone give him this if he comes back please
14:19 < braenaru> http://imgur.com/8YacDla
14:20 < braenaru> ask him what's up with all his debt
14:20 < braenaru> and thank him for his awesome system
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--- Log closed Mon Jul 11 00:00:54 2016