--- Log opened Mon Aug 15 00:00:26 2016 00:11 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:15 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:15 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:33 -!- todaystommorow [~none@2601:647:c803:21a0:1511:660b:cdd4:7073] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:47 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzjksbqwoqnkjymi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:03 -!- Giszmo [~leo@178-83-12-152.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:28 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@2.217.2.220] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:42 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:44 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:50 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:07 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:08 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 02:13 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:13 -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:15 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:38 -!- xissburg [~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:16 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@198pc231.sshunet.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@198pc231.sshunet.nl] has quit [Changing host] 03:22 -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:22 -!- Sleepnbum [~Sleepnbum@173.55.57.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:35 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bzjksbqwoqnkjymi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 03:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:39 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:43 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:46 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:47 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:54 -!- cjcj [2e3b026a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.59.2.106] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:54 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:58 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:20 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:32 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:34 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@212.12.35.112] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:34 -!- Davasny [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:45 -!- nsh- [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:50 -!- bildramer [bildramer@2a02:582:5847:cd00:8083:6823:47d0:8e47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51 -!- bildramer [bildramer@2a02:582:5847:cd00:8083:6823:47d0:8e47] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:53 -!- Davasny [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00 -!- someoneo1 [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:01 < someoneo1> is this the best channel for a complex support request 05:02 < someoneo1> or can someone direct me elsewhere 05:04 -!- espes [~espes@205.185.120.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:06 -!- espes [~espes@205.185.120.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:06 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:10 < waxwing> someoneo1: ask in #bitcoin, they'll redirect you if necessary 05:14 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:15 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:31 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:33 -!- someoneo1 [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:34 -!- someoneo [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:37 -!- someoneo1 [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- someoneo [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:42 -!- musalbas [~musalbas@2001:bc8:30c2:ff00::] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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ZZZzzz…] 07:24 -!- smash_ [~smash@pool-173-73-196-105.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:25 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:36 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37 -!- smash_ [~smash@pool-173-73-196-105.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:37 -!- smash_ [~smash@pool-173-73-196-105.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:49 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@2.217.2.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-188-45.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:49 -!- Samdney [~Samdney@dyn-ant666999.hawo.ipv6.uni-erlangen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:56 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:02 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@unit033.acavpn.strath.ac.uk] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:03 -!- c0rw1n_ [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [] 08:16 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:23 -!- aburan28 [~androirc@static-108-45-93-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:23 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:28 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:36 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:42 -!- Samdney [~Samdney@dyn-ant666999.hawo.ipv6.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:42 -!- e0 [~e0@cs10-dhcp127.bu.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:45 -!- Sleepnbum [~Sleepnbum@72.67.47.196] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:51 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:52 -!- cjd [~user@2c0f:f930:2:12::] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:53 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 < e0> Who invented the original unidirectional micropayment channels? The earlist I can find is hashcoin proposing it in a 2011 bitcoin-talk thread. Did anyone propose it earlier than that? 08:57 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:57 < andytoshi> there was a broken one involving sequence numbers on the Contracts page in 2011 08:59 -!- zooko [~user@173.14.5.169] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 < instagibbs> e0, link for that one? 09:03 -!- nsh- [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:03 < sipa> https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Contract#Example_7:_Rapidly-adjusted_.28micro.29payments_to_a_pre-determined_party 09:05 -!- nsh [~lol@wikipedia/nsh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:11 < e0> sipa: The lightning network paper cites that for micropayment channels. It was added by Mike Hearn Dec 4 2011, but Hashcoin wrote the bitcoin-talk forum post half a year earlier in July 04 2011. 09:11 < Eliel> e0: I think there was some mention of smart contract in Bitcoin whitepaper too, but I forget the details. Might be worth looking at though. 09:12 < e0> or user Mike, I assume it is Mike Hearn but I could be wrong 09:13 -!- zooko [~user@173.14.5.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15 < e0> Eliel: I think Script is post-whitepaper, since the whitepaper pre-dates the implementation and Script was one of the last features added to the implemention. I could be wrong, I'm a little fuzzy on that timeline. 09:16 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-104-172-191-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:18 < Eliel> hmm yes, the whitepaper doesn't contain anything on smart contracts. 09:18 < Eliel> At least not on a fast scan 09:22 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:34 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:38 -!- pinhead26 [b81718b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.23.24.182] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 < andytoshi> there was a script from first release but i doubt it was really poked at until mid-2010 when artforz found the OP_RETURN bug 09:39 < pinhead26> can anyone help me understand: reachable=false for ipv4 in getnetworkinfo? 09:39 < pinhead26> https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/43386/what-is-meant-by-getnetworkinfo-networks-reachable-false 09:41 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:44 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:44 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@unit033.acavpn.strath.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:47 < sipa> pinhead26: #bitcoin-core-dev 09:55 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:00 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@2.217.2.220] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:03 <@gmaxwell> e0: bitcoin's creator did. 10:09 < lmatteis> have any of you read about Steem? didn't find mentions in IRC logs. wondering whether it's worth a study or simply another bs coin. 10:12 < fluffypony> lmatteis: I don't think it has any longevity, but it's fun to get paid for posts 10:12 < fluffypony> just cash out straight after :) 10:12 < pigeons> it is bitshares + complexity 10:13 < lmatteis> so it's just like another coin. it's value is driven upwards because people see $$ on posts on their site. 10:16 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@p4FCCD15A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:17 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:18 -!- fiamhaa [uid179905@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-joefjrsguetzyoxe] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:19 < lmatteis> also the paper seems rather non-techie, even though it makes quite extraordinary technical claims: "the consensus algorithm adopted by Steem is similar to the consensus algorithm adopted by companies throughout the world" 10:20 < bsm117532> It's utterly impossible to cash out of steem. It's funny money and a ponzi scheme. 10:20 < lmatteis> really? gosh ok 10:23 < bsm117532> weekly installments paid out over a 2 year timescale. So effectively they just inflate the value by a factor of 100. Money is flowing from speculators to these weekly payouts. Speculators will never be able to cash out, except to other speculators. Hence, Ponzi. 10:23 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:24 -!- Davasny_ [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:26 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 < e0> gmaxwell: Is there a public thread where Satoshi invents payment channels? 10:28 < e0> gmaxwell: I'm looking at http://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/quotes/micropayments/ but it seems like Satoshi didn't have the idea in 2010 10:34 -!- Davasny [~quassel@78-11-193-195.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:34 <@gmaxwell> Mostly private correspondence, though I believe he also mentioned them on BCT. Personally, I wouldn't even load "nakamotoinstitute.org"; it's an unimaginable level of scummyness in my view take the name of someone you've never spoken with for your group. 10:34 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:35 < Eliel> lmatteis: I'm not convinced about steem's long term viability, but I think at least the creator is honest in that he's trying to make a system that could perhaps work. Mostly it's a question of if the community manages to create enough value through the functional part of the system to keep speculators perpetually interested. 10:36 -!- Davasny_ [~quassel@195.150.236.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:37 < lmatteis> but is it technically sounded? i'm more interested in (i) how they're able to reach consensus without PoW, (ii) how they avoid people with lots of "steem coins" to promote their own content several times, (iii) how are the "steem coins" generated? 10:37 < Eliel> lmatteis: there's some kind of a PoW involved in the system, I forget what kind though. 10:37 < bsm117532> Honest people can create Ponzi schemes. In such cases you will usually find a muddy and confusing notion of "value" and where it comes from. 10:38 < e0> gmaxwell: ok, thanks for your help, I'll wade through BCT 10:38 < Eliel> lmatteis: for (ii) they expect the profit motive from owning a stake in steem to end up with people self-policing to make the site attractive. 10:39 < Eliel> umm *content 10:40 < Eliel> lmatteis: for (iii) it's perpetual inflation with 90% given to existing holders and 10% divided according to their votes on comments and posts. 10:40 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:42 < waxwing> i vote not to discuss it here :) (my vote is recorded on the blockchain natch') 10:46 < bsm117532> It appears their consensus protocol is an ad-hoc voting scheme (a la PBFT) where entering the validator set requires computing a PoW. AFAICT it is new, untested, not peer reviewed, and riddled with holes. Their whitepaper contains lots of word salad but no algorithm descriptions or proofs. I'm with waxwing, let's not discuss it further unless someone sees technical merit in it. 10:46 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-104-172-191-85.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:47 < lmatteis> i agree. seems like an interesting idea, but lacks technical, clear, explanations to how it works. 10:47 < sipa> ha, steemit is not the same as slockit 10:47 < sipa> ^- just realized that 10:54 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:00 -!- pinhead26 [b81718b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.184.23.24.182] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:01 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-104-172-191-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- shingu [6a331318@gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.51.19.24] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:22 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24 < kanzure> https://github.com/PascalCoin/PascalCoin/blob/master/PascalCoin%20White%20Paper%20-%20EN.pdf 11:25 -!- someoneo [~Adium@host5-81-154-187.range5-81.btcentralplus.com] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 11:25 < kanzure> er.. nevermind. 11:26 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:29 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@14.169.57.10] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:35 -!- shingu [6a331318@gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.51.19.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:36 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36 -!- davec [~davec@cpe-24-243-251-52.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:43 -!- zooko [~user@73.95.137.59] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:43 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:45 -!- ruby32 [~ruby32@38.121.165.30] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:47 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:47 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 11:52 -!- slackircbridge1 [~slackircb@45.55.41.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52 -!- slackircbridge [~slackircb@45.55.41.36] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53 -!- henrytill [~henrytill@unaffiliated/henrytill] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:53 -!- henrytill [~henrytill@unaffiliated/henrytill] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:55 -!- aburan28 [~androirc@static-108-45-93-70.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:10 -!- aar- [~aaron@9.149.197.104.bc.googleusercontent.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:14 -!- zooko [~user@73.95.137.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@p4FCCD15A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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