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http://bitcoin.sipa.be/utxo_size.png 14:37 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:39 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39 -!- atgreen [~green@38.104.156.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:39 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:40 < sipa> wallet42: i have the bitcoind branch that generates the number somewhere 14:40 <@gmaxwell> and gnuplot 14:41 < bsm117532> What happened last summer to generate the large increase in ~10 uBTC outputs? 14:41 < Ylbam> stress tests ;) 14:41 < helo> the rumored classic attack? 14:42 < wallet42> i wanted to create a graph that uses similar historical utxo data: how many coins are created and destroyed in a certain period e.g. 1 day/1week. 14:49 -!- HostFat_ [~HostFat@host16-126-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:50 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:59 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:00 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:01 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@host16-126-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:07 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@104.193.169-200.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 15:12 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:20 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@172.56.39.162] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:34 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:34 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:37 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:40 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:51 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@172.56.39.162] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 15:51 -!- atgreen [~green@CPE687f74122463-CM00fc8d24cab0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:53 -!- satwo [~satwo@c-71-228-209-154.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [] 15:53 < mryandao> wasn't Micropayment Channels proposed by Jeremy Spillman but first implemented by Mike Hearn in bitcoinj? 15:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:58 -!- murch1 [~murch@p4FE39453.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:58 -!- murch1 [~murch@p4FE39453.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:59 -!- murch [~murch@p4FE3905D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:17 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:17 -!- c0rw1n [~c0rw1n@193.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:19 <@gmaxwell> mryandao: no. They were proposed by bitcoin's creator, and implemented in bitcoinj BlueMatt. 16:19 <@gmaxwell> (and also described in public by Mike Hearn.) 16:31 < BlueMatt> mryandao: IIRC the specific structure/script proposed was originally Jeremy Spillman and then tweaked by Hearn before I implemented it 16:31 < BlueMatt> but the concept was satoshi, AFAIU 16:31 <@gmaxwell> BlueMatt: thanks 16:31 < sipa> weren't there two different approaches? 16:32 < sipa> one relying on old semantics, which doesn't actually work anymore, or so? 16:32 < BlueMatt> sipa: there was a lot of talk of using sequence for it, ie decreasing sequence number ala lightning now that that has actual semantics 16:32 < kanzure> another thing to point out is that micropayment as a concept is from pre-bitcoin 16:33 < BlueMatt> afaiu this is pretty much the purpose of sequence number - payment channels 16:33 < kanzure> (even crypto-related micropayment initiatives) 16:40 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 16:49 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@ppp-94-68-222-234.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:55 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@ppp-94-67-115-75.home.otenet.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:01 -!- WungFu [~WungFu@unaffiliated/wungfu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:08 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:13 -!- Giszmo [~leo@2001:a61:32cf:d301:d12d:6d17:d34c:ed36] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:21 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 -!- chjj_ [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:26 -!- chjj_ [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Client Quit] 17:26 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Quit: null] 17:27 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:35 -!- ale______ [~alex@96.82.80.25] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:35 < ale______> @gmaxwell is it possible to create a provably unspendable xpub? 17:39 < nsh> to what end? 17:41 < petertodd> kanzure: never did review darkleaks IIRC 17:43 -!- Mazz_ [~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:46 -!- Mazz_ [~mazznilla@unaffiliated/mazznilla] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:07 -!- proslogion [~proslogio@2.217.2.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20 < ale______> @nsh want to create an m of n multisig address where it's only possible that m - 1 xprvs exist 18:26 -!- JackH [~Jack@79-73-188-45.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:31 -!- HostFat_ [~HostFat@host54-89-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:34 -!- HostFat [~HostFat@host16-126-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:35 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zufvamgzmcwprtqu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 18:36 < nsh> why not just use a non xpub key for the unspendable one? 18:37 -!- Samdney [~Samdney@dyn-ant666999.hawo.ipv6.uni-erlangen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:39 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:46 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-104-172-191-85.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:48 -!- GAit [~GAit@2-230-161-158.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 18:55 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:59 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04 < andytoshi> ale______: yes, use a compressed pubkey with 0 or 5 as the x-coordinate, for example. but i suspect that whatever problem you're solving with this can be solved more efficiently 19:04 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:06 < ale______> andytoshi: Thanks. Can you point me to any literature on why this works? How do you think it could be solved more efficiently? 19:09 < andytoshi> ale______: what are you doing? 19:11 < ale______> andytoshi: I'm making a multi-sig address that much be m of n, so it requires n xpubs. I want to ensure that there will only be m - 1 xprvs I ever need to worry about securing. I cannot make it (m - 1) of (n - 1), because the system I'm using requires n xpubs. 19:13 < ale______> andytoshi: s/much/must 19:13 < andytoshi> ok, well the more efficient thing is to fix the underlying system :) 19:14 < andytoshi> but the reason this works is that for any x value, there are at most two elliptic curve points with said x-value. but for some x-values, there are no such points. this falls out of the definiton of the elliptic curve that bitcoin uses (y^2 = x^3 + 7 mod 2^256 - 2^32 - 977 or something) 19:15 < andytoshi> 5 is such an x-value. so you can encode a "pubkey with x-value 5" which will be encoded correctly, but not correspond to any point 19:16 < andytoshi> the bitcoin script interpreter does check pubkey encoding (under some circumstances, i'm unsure about during blockchain verification) and will reject the whole script outright if one is badly encoded 19:16 < andytoshi> but it -won't- if an invalid point is correctly encoded 19:18 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:5e77:1b69:416f:e323:e18f:e7bb] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:19 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:304:5e77:1b69:416f:e323:e18f:e7bb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22 < ale______> andytoshi: excellent, thank you so much. I will play around with the secp256k1 curve equation until I'm convinced. Then figure out how to properly encode it. 19:29 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:37 -!- ale______ [~alex@96.82.80.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@ppp-94-67-115-75.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44 -!- Samdney [~Samdney@dyn-ant666999.hawo.ipv6.uni-erlangen.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:57 -!- bildramer [~bildramer@ppp-94-67-115-75.home.otenet.gr] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:01 -!- Samdney [~Samdney@dyn-ant666999.hawo.ipv6.uni-erlangen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:03 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04 -!- zooko [~user@50.246.213.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:07 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:12 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:16 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:31 -!- ale______ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:36 -!- ale______ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39 -!- ale______ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:44 -!- ale______ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:58 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:09 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:21 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22 -!- asynk [~aknix@65.78.54.2] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:23 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:34 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:53 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:56 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-241-70-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:59 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:09 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10 < alex___> andytoshi: what should I put for the y-value if I choose an x-value of 5? I need to encode the public key with 0x04 + 32-bit big-endian x value + 32-bit big-endian y-value. 22:11 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:11 <@gmaxwell> alex___: anything you want, but ... what the heck are you doing where you're required to use a certian number of keys and they must be uncompressed?! 22:18 < alex___> I'm using BitGo's API which only makes 2 of 3 multisig addresses. I want to create a wallet, and the function I'm using requires 3 keypairs to be passed in. 22:18 < alex___> I only care about 2 of the keypairs (one which a customer which generate client-side, the other I generate on my own server), so this 3rd keypair is really just a liability. 22:18 < alex___> If I or the customer were to generate the 3rd keypair ourselves and then were to be compromised, the attacker could then sign their own transactions. 22:19 < alex___> So I want this 3rd key to have no private key (i.e. provably unspendable) so that an attacker could only spend from the address if both I and the customer were to be compromised. 22:20 < alex___> If there's a better way to approach this, I'd love to know! 22:20 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-241-70-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 22:23 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-241-70-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:24 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-241-70-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:29 <@gmaxwell> I'm going to guess that their API will validate the keys, so you won't be able to do that. 22:31 <@gmaxwell> so first, you should probably ask them to support 2 of 2. At least ask. :) 22:32 <@gmaxwell> If you're going to work around it this way, you can generate a nothing up my sleeve pubkey... for which a private key exists but no one knows it. 22:33 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35 < mryandao> oh he left :( 22:36 <@gmaxwell> yes, thats why I stopped talking. 22:40 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:41 < alex___> gmaxwell: OK thanks for the suggestions (and sorry, I didn't know bitcoin-wizards wasn't for short-term development. I'll move to bitcoin-dev) 22:42 < mryandao> if i'm doing something related to atomic coin swaps, would this be the right channel to share my thoughts? 22:42 < mryandao> or should i move to #bitcoin-dev too? 22:46 -!- wangchun [~wangchun@li414-193.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:47 -!- wangchun [~wangchun@li414-193.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:50 -!- HostFat_ [~HostFat@host54-89-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:53 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:26 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:49 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:55 -!- alex___ [~alex@c-73-202-191-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57 -!- markus-k [~markus-k@212.12.35.112] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Wed Aug 17 00:00:28 2016