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11:56 < Taek> https://blog.lookout.com/blog/2016/08/25/trident-pegasus/
11:57 < Taek> "Sophisticated, persistent mobile attack against high-value targets on iOS"
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11:58 < Taek> Seems to me like there is a consistently increasing number of 'sophisiticated' and 'persistent' attacks, which I think has strong implications to the tech industry as a whole
12:01  * helo moves into a cave
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12:03 < kanzure> many of the holes seem to be in things related to media like mms and web browsers. i recommend not using browsers.
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12:04 <@gmaxwell> My standard advice is to assume any host with a brower on it is compromised.
12:04 < sipa> brewers?
12:06 < kanzure> yeah brewers are probably more safe than browsers
12:07 < instagibbs> alcoholics hardest hit :(
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12:23 < nsh> Bowser's weaknesses are princesses and overconfidence in lava-based security
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14:49 < Taek> http://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2016/papers/0824a110.pdf
14:49 < Taek> LAVA: Large-scale Automated Vulnerability Addition
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15:18 < polyclef_> @gmaxwell: solid rule of thumb
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18:37 < amiller> this looks pretty interesting https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/716.pdf
18:44 <@gmaxwell> amiller: what is its security model?  Can existing miners prevent a new miner from joining the system?
18:45 < amiller> hi gmaxwell... im still trying to figure out what the assumptions are here
18:45 < amiller> its strange, there are still proof-of-work miners, and the miners themselves don't have to have coins
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18:46 < amiller> there does seem to be an assumption that "a majority of the coins are honest" kind of like tendermint
18:47 < phantomcircuit> gmaxwell, "In such a mature cryptocurrency system, the majority of coins is controlled by honest user"
18:47 < phantomcircuit> hybrid PoS i assume
18:47 < amiller> does seem a form of hybrid pos
18:49 < phantomcircuit> > To
18:49 < phantomcircuit> address this issue, our final strategy is to
18:49 < phantomcircuit> compare the unspent supporting coins in two branches from the block
18:49 < phantomcircuit> where the chains diverge (divergent position)
18:49 < phantomcircuit> .
18:49 < phantomcircuit> indeed hybrid PoS
18:49 < phantomcircuit> yawn
18:50 <@gmaxwell> I wish papers came with oracle access to the author. Could save so much time.  "I acquire most of the keys for the coins as of block 10. What would happen if, at block 2000, I created a backdated chain starting at 1. Then at block 2002 you join the network for the first time, connect to me first, and recieve my chain (which happens to have much less work in it). From your perspective the non-back
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18:50 <@gmaxwell> dated chain looks like a 51% attack. Would you switch to it?"
18:51 <@gmaxwell> Or, "say my cabal has a majority hashpower today, can I prevent you from ever becoming a miner tomorrow? If so, what does it cost us to do this, for varrious levels of honest hashrate and denied hashrate?"
18:53 < amiller> the authors have email addresses at least :)
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18:58 < adlai> "For simplicity of our security analysis, we assume that coin metal is ten-karat and perfectly spherical"
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19:33 < bsm1175321> ah, the spherical cow assumption, I know it well.
19:34  * bsm1175321 calculates the capacitance of a perfectly spherical cow...
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19:43 < bsm1175321> The definition of "majority" is abundantly clear to everyone.  The definition of "malicious" is clear to no one.  Therefore "malicious" has no useful meaning.  Majority is quantitatively measurable, and can be used in protocols.
19:47 < bsm1175321> Though "majority" should not be used in protocols.  Any protocol which does not contain a majority condition/measurement will be more reliable/desirable than any that does.  However, we've expanded our reach from network protocols to finance, and I think the ensuing ambiguity is inevitable.  But the notion that anyone can define "malicious" as anything better than > 50% of anything is a fantasy.
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19:50 < Taek> I like the term 'Byzantine', meaning 'it'll do anything in it's power to mess you up regarless of incentives'
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19:54 < bsm1175321> Incentives fail.  There are externalities.  Sometimes, a negative interest rate is better than a worse negative interest rate of other available options.
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19:55 < bsm1175321> The assumption that an actor wants to maximize his coin holdings also fails -- in the case that the actor is holding another better-performing asset, his interest is to minimize his holdings in the worse performing asset.
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