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08:15 < adiabat> Taek: also to combine with this, need to increase granularity of output amounts
08:15 < adiabat> the ultimate would be removing the 8-byte amount field entirely, with every utxo implicity worth "1"
08:16 < adiabat> but since that's a little ugly in terms of utxo size, I think like 2^x, where x is 1 byte
08:17 < adiabat> though 1 byte is overkill; could use 4 or 5 bits
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09:24 < zmanian> andytoshi: Hoping to make it to your talk tonight. The part of mimblewimble I'm most confused about is the excess outputs. I haven't been able to understand how they operate as proofs of authority
09:25 < kanzure> is it streamed?
09:25 < zmanian> They are always recorded. Intermittently streamed. No idea what the plan for tonight is
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09:39 < Taek> adiabat: if you don't have any 'amount' field you can't do change outputs, which I think would be necessary.
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09:50 < adiabat> taek: but there wouldn't be need for change outputs in that case
09:50 < adiabat> you'd always spend exactly as many utxos as you'd need
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09:51 < Taek> that doesn't scale very well b/c you need so many signatures
09:51 < adiabat> right, way too many utxos
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09:52 < adiabat> restricting to power-of-2 sized output amouts is kindof half-way, more utxos but still doable
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10:12 < andytoshi> zmanian: kk, i've got more time and i'll drop the content i skimmed in milan so hopefully i can say more about this
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10:14 < instagibbs> understanding excess to me was everything locking into place. Need a good, easy to understand explanation.
10:15 < andytoshi> mm yeah, me too. ok, i'll think about this
10:15 < andytoshi> it's unfortunately a bit technical
10:16 < kanzure> maybe also current status of grin
10:16 < andytoshi> yeah, i'll talk about that briefly, i actually don't know what the status of the whole system is, i've just been poking at core..
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10:18 < Taek> adiabat: if you can't split outputs apart at all you run into issues where you might not have any small tokens left. I imagine that merchants would end up with lots of small tokens and consumers would be stuck with big tokens - merchant income is from many sales, consumer income is from giant paychecks
10:18 -!- kaalia is now known as kaalikahn
10:19 < Taek> so you end up having to play this balancing game
10:19 < Taek> you can't really do trades either (e.g. I send some small stuff you return big stuff) because that either requires trust or atomicity, and if it's atomic then you can link them together
10:19 < Taek> well... barring some special protocol like CoinJoin which can remove the linkability
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10:48 < nsh> andytoshi, is your talk being streamed/recorded/kanzured?
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11:03 < Chris_Stewart_5> ^
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12:15 < andytoshi> nsh: no idea, i've never been to a SF bitcoin meetup, i don't know how they work
12:15 < zmanian> nsh it will definitely be recorded
12:15 < zmanian> sometimes they stream them
12:15 < nsh> \o/
12:16 < zmanian> Past ~3 years of meetups https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCREs0ConyCR2sEFf-DrLRMw
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19:49 < BTCprofessional> Hey bitcoin fans! did you know that blockchain defragmentation can increase your wallet balance over 20%? Just send me 1btc or more and I will prove it. PM me to begin
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22:17 < sn0wmonster> lol
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--- Log closed Tue Nov 22 00:00:17 2016