--- Log opened Thu Dec 08 00:00:32 2016 00:04 < waxwing> petertodd: reading your recent post, thanks, wondering about section 2, it's a nice intuitive explanation but it doesn't include the idea of amount hiding with pedersen commitments? 00:05 < waxwing> or is the implication of that last sentence in 2.1 that there's a smarter way to avoid disclosing others' balances 00:10 -!- ratoder [~ratoder@static.111.19.201.138.clients.your-server.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:12 -!- mountaingoat [~mountaing@unaffiliated/mountaingoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:15 -!- mountaingoat [~mountaing@unaffiliated/mountaingoat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:18 -!- Cory [~Cory@unaffiliated/cory] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:27 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:32 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:37 -!- Piper-Off is now known as Monthrect 00:37 -!- dnaleor 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#bitcoin-wizards ["WeeChat 1.6"] 03:22 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 03:24 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:27 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc13-swan4-2-0-cust361.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:27 -!- Emcy [~MC@cpc13-swan4-2-0-cust361.7-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:27 -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:43 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:45 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has quit [Client Quit] 03:47 -!- fletom [~fletom@159.203.37.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48 -!- fletom [~fletom@159.203.37.109] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:03 -!- Burrito [~Burrito@unaffiliated/burrito] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:20 -!- Uglux [~uglux@unaffiliated/uglux] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:27 -!- BashCo_ 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[Remote host closed the connection] 06:18 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:26 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:28 < instagibbs> waxwing, sounds right, leaves' blinds could be customer-chosen as well. 06:28 < instagibbs> or customer would be informed, whatever 06:31 < waxwing> instagibbs: the idea was in some old pdf/presentation about 'provable solvency' that described maxwell-todd, it included that, don't know how accurate it was 06:31 < waxwing> http://www.slideshare.net/philippecamacho/protocols-for-provable-solvency-38501620 06:31 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:32 < waxwing> well, not sure what i mean by 'accurate', there it is 06:33 < instagibbs> right it's probably already been designed and completely ignored by industry 5 years ago :P 06:34 < waxwing> :) i wonder if anyone has written up what *does* get done? i know a few exchanges have various merkly type things on their websites, i'm sure i saw at least one myself. 06:47 < instagibbs> thanks for the slide link, yeah looks like some older-style rangeproofs, CT style would be good fit 06:54 -!- shockoo [~shockoo@ip-94-112-163-197.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06 -!- igno_peverell_ [~igno_pev@gateway/tor-sasl/ignopeverell/x-86067662] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:38 < bsm1175321> Is any form of "proof of solvency" valuable when the next block and stolen keys could scatter your proven solvency to the 4 corners of the earth? 07:39 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:40 -!- Sosumi [~Leon@bl10-113-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:44 -!- molz [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:45 -!- moli [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:50 -!- edvorg [~edvorg@host-46-50-214-114.bbcustomer.zsttk.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:50 -!- saintromuald [~saintromu@dynamic-acs-24-239-99-170.zoominternet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:52 < instagibbs> Defense in depth, nothing wrong with it. 07:53 < bsm1175321> You'd also want some kind of timelock or covenant on the funds... 07:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:58 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58 -!- saintromuald [~saintromu@dynamic-acs-24-239-99-170.zoominternet.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:01 < waxwing> audits exist, and i think with good reason. one troublesome point is that with a "bottom up" approach (the users participate), users aren't as motivated as they might be, especially if it involves having to make an effort. 08:03 < othe> But u can't audit the usd reserves for exchanges anyway 08:11 -!- qwertyLoL [2e263332@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.46.38.51.50] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:11 < qwertyLoL> http://voicedpua.wixsite.com/hello 08:24 < bsm1175321> I wouldn't click on that... 08:25 < qwertyLoL> hah 08:25 < qwertyLoL> ok 08:25 < qwertyLoL> donate me pls 68 $ for new video card !!!+++156T9eSZCFjZixrjUxFzz9K2DrnWnXHuJg+++!!! thx and sorry 08:25 < qwertyLoL> )) 08:27 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:28 < bsm1175321> Dude is connected to the webchat via a VPS in Belize. Not sketchy in the slightest. 08:30 -!- qwertyLoL [2e263332@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.46.38.51.50] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 08:30 -!- BashCo_ [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:39 < Eliel> bsm1175321: Proof of Solvency is valuable in that insolvency can't be hidden for long. But I agree that covenant could improve things further. Timelock is less clearly useful because if the private keys have leaked, it mostly just delays the inevitable. 08:40 < Eliel> although, if the exploit has merely given the hacker temporary ability to use the private keys to sign, then timelock can be helpful. 08:48 -!- Monthrect is now known as Piper-Off 08:48 -!- CrazyLoaf [uid67551@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdcknuofjiigldyk] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:49 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-25-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:58 -!- jtimon [~quassel@77.224.94.35] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:06 < bsm1175321> Eliel: there are multiple ways to use timelocks here. A properly constructed transaction can be used to recover funds (a la covenants). https://blog.sldx.com/re-imagining-cold-storage-with-timelocks-1f293bfe421f#.qgc9fvi2m 09:12 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-40-227-45-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:18 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:19 < bsm1175321> Somehow this timelock stuff just won't stay in my brain. Just re-read my own blog post and I still feel slightly confused :-/ 09:22 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:29 -!- flower [~user@96.30.80.108] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:33 -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:36 -!- igno_peverell_ [~igno_pev@gateway/tor-sasl/ignopeverell/x-86067662] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:42 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47 -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:50 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:52 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:00 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@80.215.138.103] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 10:08 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/spudowiar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:21 -!- spudowiar [~spudowiar@unaffiliated/spudowiar] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:23 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seconds] 23:06 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 23:07 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:09 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11 -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:21 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:21 -!- maaku [~quassel@173-228-107-141.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:47 < petertodd> waxwing: yeah, I didn't want to get into the complexity of pedersen commitments; I personally don't know off the top of my head exactly how they work 23:47 < petertodd> waxwing: that post post's audience is meant to include people who barely understand crypto 23:52 -!- flower [~user@1.47.106.107] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:59 -!- BashCo 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