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08:02 < kanzure> some links and things about 'high assurance cryptographic software' https://github.com/HACS-workshop/links
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09:28 < adam3us> did anyone figure out how these guys https://alf.nu/SHA1 are able to produce arbitrary image (within some size constraints) two pdfs containing user selected images, instantly with full sha1 hash collisions?
09:29 < gmaxwell> adam3us: yes, they used the collision to twiddle some pdf metadata that switched between the two different images.
09:29 < adam3us> oh :)
09:30 < adam3us> derp. that makes sense.. both images are in both files.. they can select presentation by a single collision.
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09:30 < kanzure> the collision covers the contents of the images though
09:31 < gmaxwell> oh there is a site that lets you use any image? okay I don't get that. Does it work?
09:31 < kanzure> yes
09:31 < kanzure> (i have tested it twice)
09:31 < adam3us> it works.
09:32 < kanzure> "The first collision for full SHA-1" https://shattered.io/static/shattered.pdf
09:32 < adam3us> kanzure no i think not they have a diagram which shows pointers
09:32 < gmaxwell> Oh MD extension property
09:32 < kanzure> yes but it's a hash over the whole file
09:32 < gmaxwell> so say I can produce a prefix a and prefix b which collide.
09:33 < adam3us> https://shattered.io/static/pdf_format.png
09:33 < gmaxwell> now I can produce   a||xy b||xy for any xy which will also collide.
09:33 < adam3us> so i think there is a forward reference.
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09:33 < gmaxwell> and A and B differ in a way that selects if x or y is displayed.
09:34 < gmaxwell> Do you follow?
09:34 < adam3us> exactly.  i thought that's what you were saying ^^ further up.  but that would explain it.  they dont do a good job of explaining in the paper nor site that i saw.
09:34 < waxwing> ah. so it basically requires that the "code" has some 'hiding' property (like comments) s.t. not all changes are visible
09:34 < adam3us> length extension...
09:35 < gmaxwell> waxwing: Yes, this particular trick does.
09:35 < adam3us> waxwing i dont know the details, but they say in the paper or on the site it involves some advanced jpeg hacking and tweaking until they found a variant that is generally interpreted reliably across pdf viewers.
09:35 < waxwing> gmaxwell: i take it from that there are other tricks you can play to achieve this result
09:40 < gmaxwell> so interesting, the google demo can actually be used to attack people.
09:41 < gmaxwell> I have a vulnerblity to go report.
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09:54 < petertodd> gmaxwell: there's even a demo of it used to make two colliding HTML docs, as HTML parsers are rather lenient...
09:55 < petertodd> gmaxwell: (*lots* of people have noticed what you just noticed!)
09:55 < gmaxwell> yea, I just found a pratical vulnerabiltiy based on this and have reported it.
09:55 < petertodd> ah cool!
09:56 < petertodd> did you see how webkit's svn repo got hosed because someone checked in shattered-?.pdf?
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10:00 < gmaxwell> okay wikimedia doesn't worry about it so much that I need to keep it private, so I'll share here what I just reported and they've started acting to fix is this:  Deleted files on wikipedia are indexed by sha1.  So if you make a PDF pair where one shows kittens and the other shows shock porn,  you upload the first and get it deleted (e.g. by failing to provide copyright information) then upload th
10:00 < gmaxwell> e second, and it gets deleted because its shock porn...  then you scream bloody murder that the admin deleted your image of kittens and lied about it being shock porn...  the deletion archive will show the first image. :P
10:01 < gmaxwell> I recommended that for a quick fix they just look for the shattered prefix and block uploading that.
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10:22 < fluffypony> adam3us: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C5cykOnWgAAu_bU.jpg:large
10:23 < fluffypony> so the trick is in the JPG, really, not the PDF so much
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22:55 < Fibonacci> hi
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--- Log closed Sat Feb 25 00:00:42 2017