--- Log opened Tue Mar 07 00:00:51 2017 00:04 -!- Kexkey_ [~kexkey@23.227.207.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:08 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:14 -!- voyager_ [~voyager@ip68-13-242-116.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:29 -!- ratoder2 [~ratoder@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:30 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-niopnckosmamefbi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:33 -!- ratoder2 [~ratoder@ns334669.ip-5-196-64.eu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:49 -!- nkhl [~nkhl@1.186.76.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:03 -!- nkhl [~nkhl@1.186.76.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:10 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: 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shangzhou [uid156782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fyvyjmznmlfuoqmu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 05:13 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:23 -!- dogedart [~dogedart@unaffiliated/dogedart] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:24 -!- metric [~metric@199.127.226.246] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 05:24 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~Chris_Ste@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:26 -!- metric [~metric@199.127.226.246] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:29 -!- jtimon [~quassel@70.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:43 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [] 05:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@182.red-83-34-57.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@182.red-83-34-57.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:45 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:48 -!- airbreather_ is now known as airbreather 05:57 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-234-246.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:59 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2607:b400:24:0:a112:1883:5eb9:46ac] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:02 -!- NewLiberty_ [~NewLibert@n2d035e0c.cns.vt.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:27 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-53-149.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:28 < andytoshi> scriptless script update (locktimes) https://www.reddit.com/r/Mimblewimble/comments/5xo9ri/scriptless_scripts_in_mimblewimble_mit_bitcoin/dem9kpj/ 06:29 -!- bityogi [~textual@208-104-132-26.brvd.dsl.dyn.comporium.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:30 < bsm1175321> So the lock time is using proof of elapsed time? (e.g. a serial computation) Under the assumption no one has anything faster than CMOS at 4GHz? 06:32 < andytoshi> yup 06:32 < andytoshi> you can loosen that assumption a bit, generally for "protocol stalled, we have to back out" locktimes it's ok if you overshoot 06:33 < bsm1175321> Indeed that's the only way I know to measure time without reference to a third party. 06:33 < andytoshi> so maybe a want to locktime you for a day, so i make a puzzle i think you'll spend 2 weeks on, just in case 06:33 < bsm1175321> But the assumption makes me uncomfortable. 06:33 < andytoshi> it's not a _lot_ different from the PoW assumption 06:34 < bsm1175321> Just different in parallelization 06:34 < andytoshi> yeah 06:35 < bsm1175321> andytoshi: do you have a specific example of such a computation? Googling is tied up with a lot of Intel marketing mumbo jumbo. 06:37 < bsm1175321> How does the challenger know the solution but the prover does not? 06:37 < bsm1175321> (without performing the serial computation himself) 06:37 < andytoshi> bsm1175321: yeah, the challenger makes a RSA modulus n = pq. he can quickly compute 2^(2^bignumber) because he knows 2^bignumber mod phi(n), while everyone else has to do bignumber many squarings 06:38 < andytoshi> this is fairly standard, lemme see if i can find a citation.. 06:38 < kanzure> stream was pretty bad, lots of audio chunks were missing 06:38 < andytoshi> ah, this is it https://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/pubs/Riv99b.lcs35-puzzle-description.txt 06:38 < bsm1175321> andytoshi: Oh you're just using a short key and forcing the prover to brute-force it? 06:39 < andytoshi> yeah, i inferred that, i haven't listened to it with audio. i might fill in the gaps if i get a chance on diyhplus ... i'm getting 403 errors now instead of a login prompt, unsure if my browser is broken or your server is 06:39 < andytoshi> bsm1175321: yeah 06:39 < kanzure> andytoshi: just use git directly https://github.com/kanzure/diyhpluswiki/tree/master/transcripts/mit-bitcoin-expo-2017/ 06:39 < bsm1175321> But won't the solving time be non-linear (statistical -- if he happens to get lucky and lands on the right key early) 06:40 < andytoshi> bsm1175321: if the prover is guessing values, yes, i'm not aware of a guessing method that is anywhere near as fast as just doing the squarings 06:40 < bsm1175321> I was thinking: compute h(h(h(h(...x...))) which can only be computed serially...so same amount of time for the challenger and prover. 06:42 < bsm1175321> andytoshi: if brute-forcing the short key is indeed statistical in the time required, you can always require multiple puzzles to reduce the standard deviation on the expected time to solve them. 06:49 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:50 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 06:52 -!- skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@unaffiliated/skeuomorf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:05 < bsm1175321> andytoshi: couldn't you do exactly the same thing (as the Rivest post above) using ECC crypto for smaller proofs: compute g^(2^t) for some generator point g. 07:06 < bsm1175321> How much of a bother would the existence of non-constant time algorithms for ECC point multiplication be? 07:15 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:21 < tromp_> bsm1175321: in ECC, the group order is known, so everyone can reduce the exponent 07:23 < bsm1175321> That's why I chose a base generator g instead of 2. 07:30 -!- Kexkey [~kexkey@23.227.207.26] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:33 < tromp_> if nG=0 then nG'=0 also 07:57 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:02 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2607:b400:24:0:a112:1883:5eb9:46ac] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-niopnckosmamefbi] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 08:17 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2607:b400:24:0:a56b:f524:e065:9f8d] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25 -!- bityogi [~textual@208-104-132-26.brvd.dsl.dyn.comporium.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz...] 12:49 -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@52.119.113.96] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:50 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@52.119.113.96] has quit [Client Quit] 12:51 -!- bityogi [~textual@66-191-180-79.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...] 12:53 -!- fibonacci [~JoBo@unaffiliated/goldenangle] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:53 -!- bityogi [~textual@66-191-180-79.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 < fibonacci> Hey guys.. I think we should add 5 decimal places to bitcoin for a total of 13 places, the next logical step. It will add a whole new micro market of alt coin trade and prop btc and some other alts which also help the btc economy. 12:56 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@2600:380:bd7b:d0c2:2557:d378:d8af:ef6a] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:57 < fibonacci> That way btc can go to 10k-100k usd and the fibonacci fragments will still be useable for small transactions like gumballs and baseball cards. 13:01 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 13:03 -!- fibonacci [~JoBo@unaffiliated/goldenangle] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05 -!- juscamarena [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:07 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@73.93.143.31] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:08 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@73.93.143.31] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12 -!- bsm1175322 [~mcelrath@135.84.167.210] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:14 -!- skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@unaffiliated/skeuomorf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18 -!- bityogi [~textual@66-191-180-79.dhcp.spbg.sc.charter.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz...] 13:27 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-25-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:31 -!- NikopolSohru [~Nikopol@134.19.176.45] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@2600:380:bd7b:d0c2:2557:d378:d8af:ef6a] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47 -!- jcluck [~cluckj@static-98-114-125-87.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:50 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-125-87.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@73.93.143.31] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:52 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@73.93.143.31] has quit [Client Quit] 14:06 -!- skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@unaffiliated/skeuomorf] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:24 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28 -!- fibonacci [~JoBo@c-73-155-128-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:29 < fibonacci> Any comments on the extra 5 decimals idea? 14:29 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-25-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz...] 19:40 -!- skeuomorf [~skeuomorf@unaffiliated/skeuomorf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49 < gmaxwell> https://shells.aachen.ccc.de/~spq/md5.gif lulz. 19:53 -!- Guest90730 [~JoBo@c-73-155-128-180.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:56 < Dizzle> gmaxwell yes, pretty funny (: 20:02 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:d898:26bc:42ad:b7ab] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:03 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:d898:26bc:42ad:b7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:06 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:4c6f:568e:dfa1:e854] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:13 -!- DrDraake [DrDraake@cpe-72-224-42-216.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 20:38 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:4c6f:568e:dfa1:e854] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@c-68-62-95-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49 -!- PRab [~chatzilla@c-68-62-95-247.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:10 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:10 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:10 -!- JackH [~laptop@79-73-184-8.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24 < nicolagreco> is there an encryption scheme where it is very time consuming to encrypt? a sort of reverse time lock? 21:36 -!- dstadulis [~dstadulis@c-24-5-76-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:38 -!- Transisto2 [~Trans@modemcable017.144-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:39 -!- dstadulis [~dstadulis@c-24-5-76-205.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59 < runeks> Is relative lock-time in effect yet? As far as I can see, it isn't, but I'm not quite sure. 22:06 < runeks> nicolagreco: Require the would-be encrypter to "mine" the AES key from some data that you provide. Example: Provide the encrypter with a random 32-byte string. Tell him to append a uint64-nonce to the end of this string and keep incrementing it, until the hash of the whole thing starts with X number of zeros. When he's found this hash he notes the nonce, and 22:06 < runeks> encrypt the message using the hash as an AES key, and appends the original 32-byte string plus the uint64-nonce to the end of the encrypted data . To decrypt: 1) hash 32-bytes+nonce and confirm that it starts with X number of zeros 2) convert hash to AES key and decrypt message. 22:06 -!- warren [~warren@fedora/wombat/warren] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08 -!- adam3us [~adam3us@unaffiliated/adam3us] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:08 -!- PsychoticBoy [sid27029@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09 -!- PsychoticBoy [sid27029@pdpc/supporter/active/psychoticboy] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:16 -!- adam3us [~adam3us@unaffiliated/adam3us] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:16 < gmaxwell> runeks: we've had relative locktime for well over a year. 22:17 -!- warren [~warren@fedora/wombat/warren] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:18 < runeks> gmaxwell: Great! Thanks. 22:18 < runeks> gmaxwell: Would that be BIP68? 22:19 < gmaxwell> yes. 22:27 -!- mdavid6131 [~Adium@cpe-172-251-161-231.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:28 < runeks> So, on the BIPS page https://github.com/bitcoin/bips should "Final" be viewed as "In effect" (accepted by miners if it's a soft fork)? 22:28 -!- mdavid613 [~Adium@cpe-172-251-161-231.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33 -!- mdavid6131 [~Adium@cpe-172-251-161-231.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36 < gmaxwell> yes. 22:37 < runeks> thank you Sir 22:58 -!- phantomcircuit [~phantomci@192.241.205.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:10 -!- phantomcircuit [~phantomci@192.241.205.97] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:11 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:12 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:12 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:37 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:50 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:59 -!- kristofferR [~kristoffe@243.37-191-171.fiber.lynet.no] has joined #bitcoin-wizards --- Log closed Wed Mar 08 00:00:39 2017