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#bitcoin-wizards 05:02 -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-235-123.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:21 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22 -!- _whitelogger [~whitelogg@uruz.whitequark.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:22 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:33 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:39 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:04 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@203.red-83-43-123.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:04 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@203.red-83-43-123.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:04 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:19 < petertodd> bramc: your claim that TXO commitments requires an up-to-date commitment in each block is mistaken; they do not require a consensus protocol change at all: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2017-February/013591.html - I also gave a talk on this at mit earlier this month: https://twitter.com/petertoddbtc/status/838517271668604929 06:20 < petertodd> bramc: secondly, your claim that TXO commitments requires a txid->index mapping to be kept is also mistaken, as it's only needed for interoperability between non-txo-commitment supporting nodes and upgraded nodes; it can be dropped if all your peers support txo commitments 06:20 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21 < petertodd> bramc: (you may want a mapping for reorgs of recent blocks, but that mapping only needs to store a small set of recently created txids) 06:29 -!- airbreather_ is now known as airbreather 06:34 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:37 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:07 -!- Pachurter [~Pachurter@unaffiliated/pachurter] has quit [] 07:20 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:7900:5a72:1e7a:4e67] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:21 -!- dodomojo [~goksinen@2604:2000:c591:8400:7900:5a72:1e7a:4e67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:27 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@c-50-159-126-21.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has 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connection] 08:46 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47 -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50 -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:59 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:03 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04 -!- d9b4bef9 [~d9b4bef9@web419.webfaction.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:05 -!- bliljerk101 [~bliljerk1@c-71-60-0-241.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] 09:20 -!- s4z [~s4z@unaffiliated/s4z] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:27 -!- hashtag_ [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:30 -!- hashtagg [~hashtagg_@cpe-174-97-254-80.ma.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34 -!- arubi_ is now known as arubi 09:41 -!- s4z [~s4z@unaffiliated/s4z] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05 -!- Guest11920 [Elite19141@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-jiwenbqahahhelwu] has quit [Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!] 10:23 -!- Guest39699 [Elite19141@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-uphntmxxhmcldnld] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:25 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 10:36 -!- bramc [268265f3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.130.101.243] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:39 < bramc> petertodd: I meant the data needs to be kept up to date, not that it needs to be in the data format. If the data is canonical then every peer can calculate it locally and proofs can be sent in a side channel, which is kind of neat 10:45 < bramc> petertodd: As for needing the txid -> position, the importance of it comes in when you receive a transaction which doesn't include position information, so you need to look it up. You can require a proof of position, which totally works, and is handy because the proofs of position basically never change except for extremely recent things which you can have cached 10:46 < bramc> petertodd: I said before that the optimization which TXO commitments allow which might really help is compacting down the set. Running the numbers on it, if you turn that up to 11 and make it a bitfield everything works very well and I actually like that proposal 10:47 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49 -!- JHistone [~JHistone@cpc102320-sgyl38-2-0-cust380.18-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:49 < bramc> Making the commitments canonical so they don't have to be put in the blockchain itself is kind of neat. It makes there be some hope that an extension can actually be adopted in the current political climate, because there's no blockchain extension needed 10:51 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:59 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:10 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:13 -!- Sosumi [~Leon@bl10-113-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:16 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:37 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:f457:f67b:4154:7fa0] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:40 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:07 < bramc> I'm actually excited about having a txo bitfield. It seems to really work 12:14 < sipa> what does the bitfield represent? 12:19 < bramc> sipa the bitfield is just a bitfield of which txos are still in the utxo set: 1 for included, 0 for spent 12:20 < bramc> indexed by position, obviously 12:23 < sipa> that's an ever growing structure 12:23 < sipa> presumably the ratio of txo vs utxo will increase over time 12:24 < bramc> Yes it's a txo set as peter todd proposed. You can compactify down the older parts as they get overrun with with zeros and hence can be compressed to be smaller 12:24 < sipa> i see 12:24 < bramc> And the constant factors are so favorable it's ridiculous 12:27 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@2602:306:b8e0:8160:2878:9493:befd:7278] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:27 < bramc> Even without that compactification it's entirely practical. And it has the benefit that the proofs of position don't change after extremely short term reorgs so wallets can remember them forever. And it dramatically cuts down on database writes because the only real alterations are to spent status which are mostly done in memory 12:33 < bramc> Funny how a constant factor of 256 actually matters 12:48 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:52 < sipa> hahaha 12:53 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:55 -!- onabreak [55e4c68f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.228.198.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25 -!- CubicEarth [~cubiceart@2002:329f:7e15:0:6830:3d53:66b2:3b66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-147-100.netcologne.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:26 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@xdsl-87-79-147-100.netcologne.de] has quit [Changing host] 13:26 -!- Belkaar [~Belkaar@unaffiliated/belkaar] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:36 -!- AaronvanW 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