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07:17 < Eliel> this current hard fork uncertainty and especially the motivations behind it are having me wonder if having a proof of stake component in the mining process would stabilize things politically.
07:19 < Eliel> that should pretty effectively remove the miner illusion that they can decide things by themselves.
07:21 < Eliel> and has some potential for also becoming a mechanism for flexible community set blocksize limit.
07:22 < Taek> proof-of-stake increases the surface area
07:22 < Taek> even if it's a minor component to consensus, it's a point of failure
07:22 < Taek> even ignoring the other problems, one thing I really don't like about stake based systems is that there is no way to have a resource war
07:23 < Eliel> well, the failure mode it would have is comparable to the current situation
07:23 < Taek> in PoW, you can outmatch a 51% miner by going and building stuff
07:23 < Taek> in PoS, you can't outmatch a 51% staker ever
07:23 < Taek> if they are refusing to sell, then that's the end of the story
07:24 < Eliel> you're thinking oversimplified PoS here.
07:24 < Taek> perhaps
07:24 < Eliel> take a look at these https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Proof_of_Stake#Implementation
07:28 < Eliel> For example if you require 5 randomly selected stakeholder signatures per block, you can make the stake percentage required for 51% attack to be much closer to 95%
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08:48 < da2ce7> is there an proposal of a 'anti-replay' op-code that allows you to insert a checkpoint hash into your transaction.... Tho, that wouldn't stop the replay on the 'other' chain.
08:49 < da2ce7> The only way I know how to do a effective anti-replay is include a input from a coin-base transaction of the chain you wish it only to be included upon.
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08:51 < da2ce7> I suppose you could soft fork a requirement that each block requires hundreds of special 1 satoshi outputs (from the block reward);  then allow people to include these inputs in their transactions.
08:52 < da2ce7> for example, soft for so that there should be 10k 1 satoshi outputs, if under the limit, then a block must include at-least 100 new outputs.
08:53 < da2ce7> 1 satoshi outputs being a special type of (anyone can spend).
09:04 < kanzure> did you consider the replace-by-fee method?
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09:04 < da2ce7> kanzure, sorry, I don't know of this method, (at least not by name).
09:07 < kanzure> da2ce7: http://docs.electrum.org/en/latest/hardfork.html
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09:11 < da2ce7> kanzure, that is only works because of the diff relay settings for BU and Bitcoin. There is no consensus guarantee.
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10:06 < Eliel> da2ce7: true, it's not guaranteed to work, but if you're yourself the recipient, a slight chance of failure is not a big problem.
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10:07 < da2ce7> Eliel, I suppose the really scary thing is how to do relay protection for pre-signed transactions.   In this mess you just have to have send to your-self a few times (and maybe with an automated RBF feature).
10:09 < Eliel> da2ce7: a pre-fork presigned transaction is already ambiguous in that respect...
10:09 < Eliel> I'm thinking that logically, they ought to be included in both chains.
10:09 < da2ce7> Yeah... maybe it in theory 'is' on both chains,.
10:10 < da2ce7> so, the transaction pool waiting to be included in blocks when the fork happens is stuffed.
10:10 < da2ce7> and because we don't have a flag-day to warn people about. it is gonna be messy.
10:14 < da2ce7> It could be an idea to group a replay-protection soft-fork with the SegWit soft-fork.  Then we can activate it with a UASF.
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10:18 < MaxSan> nice
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--- Log closed Sat Mar 25 00:00:08 2017