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09:31 < andytoshi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_TREZzeerA live stream of stanford computer forum (thanx instagibbs )
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14:46 < oleganza> andytoshi: that [Bootle et al '16] paper mentioned by Benedikt looks like my suggestion to use separate generators per digit in MW mailing list
14:46 < oleganza> but i can't find that paper anywhere
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14:52 < andytoshi2> oleganza: very interesting. i'm out right now, can't look it up... very glad that bram asked about interactivity of aggregation
14:53 < andytoshi2> this could yet be useful for a low-value sinking signature mimblewimble chain where all txes involve interaction. but i dunno
14:54 < andytoshi2> i'm disappointed that the big space savings require linking rangeproofs together like this
14:55 < andytoshi2> btw congrats on your sound rangeproof scheme, it's super cool
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14:59 < oleganza>  andytoshi2: thanks. Unfortunately, while compact, soundness incurs 2x CPU cost. If we fiat-shamir around it, that'd be a 2x faster (so the same as w/o PQ hardening), but also not PQ-sound anymore.
15:00 < oleganza> i'm looking into the ways to optimize slightly to maybe reuse some scalar multiplications so we don't have 4 scalar mults per ring element, but maybe 3 or smth
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15:00 < oleganza> Also, "compact" compared to non-PQ rangeproof - meaning, the same size
15:00 < oleganza> not so compact really
15:01 < Alanius> I don't see why you would want your non-interactivity transformation to be post-quantum if you're relying on elliptic curves ... so what are you relying on?
15:01 < andytoshi2> heh, yeah, but same size is still pretty good
15:02 < andytoshi2> alanius: a quantum computer can't make two ec points add to something else
15:02 < andytoshi2> so soundness is still a possible pq goal even if the crypto is totally broken
15:03 < Alanius> interesting distinction :)
15:04 < nsh> andytoshi2, oleganza: any link for this new rangeproof stuff?
15:05 < oleganza> have no link yet
15:05 < oleganza> i'm also not there to ask in person
15:05 < andytoshi2> oleg's thing is linked on the mimblewimble mailing list
15:06 < oleganza> https://lists.launchpad.net/mimblewimble/msg00098.html
15:06 < oleganza> nsh: ^
15:06 < oleganza> but i don't have any docs re: Bunz talk today
15:07 < nsh> ty
15:07 < Alanius> also, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, we don't know for sure that Fiat-Shamir is insecure against quantum computers; it's just the proof of security that breaks down and it's possible for all we know that FS is non-provably PQ secure
15:08 < andytoshi2> i still haven't studied quantum ro model, it's on my list
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15:32  * nsh muses for a moment on whether something can be secure but its security can be provably non-provable 
15:33 < nsh> , decides not
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15:35 < nsh> 'Why quantum computing is hard - and quantum cryptography is not provably secure' - https://arxiv.org/abs/1301.7351
15:35 < nsh> 'The Fiat-Shamir Transformation in a Quantum World' - https://eprint.iacr.org/2013/245.pdf
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15:40 < nsh> anyway, there's a provably secure variant of F-S in Q random oracle model so it's not all that bad
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--- Log closed Tue Apr 11 00:00:23 2017