--- Log opened Wed May 03 00:00:43 2017 00:01 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:01 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@45.76.118.157] has quit [Changing host] 00:01 -!- mryandao [~mryandao@unaffiliated/mryandao] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:11 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:23 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24 -!- arowser [~quassel@106.120.101.38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:34 -!- sudo_pscience [kc@gateway/vpn/mullvad/x-nqlifeppfwudkalz] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 00:34 -!- MoALTz [~no@77-254-9-16.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:54 -!- sudo_pscience [~kc@185.65.132.110] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:04 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:09 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:38 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:14 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:22 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22 -!- benthamshead [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 02:23 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:26 -!- jannes [~jannes@095-097-246-234.static.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:42 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43 -!- sudo_pscience [~kc@185.65.132.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:02 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:04 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 03:19 -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:25 < waxwing> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHPYNZ8i1cU <-- i find it outrageous how Coinbase artifically limited gmaxwell 's video size! 03:28 < stevenroose> waxwing, how so? 03:30 < waxwing> stevenroose: in a tiny corner :) 03:31 < stevenroose> ah the actial window size :p I thought you meant they cut a part of at the emd 03:31 < stevenroose> end* 03:32 < stevenroose> I prefer to see the slides clearly though 03:38 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:52 -!- shesek [~shesek@unaffiliated/shesek] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:04 -!- swoup [~swoup@unaffiliated/swoup] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:04 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:15 -!- MaxSan [~one@109.202.107.20] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:24 -!- MaxSan [~one@109.202.107.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25 < swoup> mryandao is the greatest wizard who ever lived 04:27 -!- sudo_pscience [~kc@185.65.134.75] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:45 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:48 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:48 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 04:51 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:51 -!- harrymm [~wayne@104.237.91.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:54 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:02 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:12 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:15 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:18 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:18 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 05:21 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30 -!- tromp [~tromp@ool-944bc443.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:32 -!- sn0wmonster [~yeti@taskhive/lead/sn0wmonster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:39 < andytoshi> kanzure: this is a really good transcript 05:39 < kanzure> thanks. 05:42 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43 -!- kmels [~kmels@190.14.133.6] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:43 -!- NewLiberty [~NewLibert@wsip-24-120-54-20.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:52 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@67.149.43.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@67.149.43.99] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:56 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:00 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has quit [Client Quit] 06:01 -!- jtimon [~quassel@9.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:19 -!- alferz [~alferz@unaffiliated/alfer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:29 < instagibbs> new to me https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/989 06:29 < instagibbs> "Scrypt is Maximally Memory-Hard" 06:38 < kanzure> does TMSC do DRAM stuff? 06:45 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:15 -!- brianhoffman [~brianhoff@pool-96-231-163-68.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:29 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:37 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@173.209.61.62] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:52 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@5ED2CA1D.cm-7-3d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:56 -!- pedrovian [~pedrovian@8.27.210.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59 -!- kenshi84_ [~kenshi84@2400:4027:2bd5:1200:69ce:75e9:85b4:9450] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:01 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@p255162-ipngn3001akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07 -!- kenshi84 [~kenshi84@p187130-ipngn2801akatuka.ibaraki.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:09 -!- kenshi84_ [~kenshi84@2400:4027:2bd5:1200:69ce:75e9:85b4:9450] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:10 -!- pedrovian [~pedrovian@8.27.210.16] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:17 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28 -!- benthamshead [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:29 < nsh> this seems like an less-than-credibly strong result... [scrypt's 'maximal' memory-hardness] 08:46 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-125-87.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:47 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-125-87.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:47 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:50 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-125-87.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@98.114.125.87] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:53 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:18 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:18 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:39 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:39 -!- andytoshi [~apoelstra@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:43 -!- Giszmo [~leo@201.215.13.240] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:57 -!- sudo_pscience [~kc@185.65.134.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:58 -!- heath_ is now known as heath 09:59 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:30 -!- mol [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:32 < Eliel_> would it be possible to implement a transaction version based signaling for soft-forks? That is, individual wallets could signal their readiness for a soft-fork by producing transactions to indicate they're capable of validating the new rules. 10:33 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35 < sipa> Eliel_: sure, and miners could produce them themselves and/or censor transactions that signal for something they don't like 10:36 < Eliel_> I'm not too worried about miners producing them themselves and censoring would effectively become "I don't mind being paid less". 10:37 < Eliel_> the miners producing transactions themselves could perhaps be solved by weighing the transactions with the bitcoin days destroyed measure. 10:38 < sipa> i also don't know why it would be superior 10:38 < sipa> for a softfork, the security requirement is that a reasonable amount of economically-relevant full nodes and a hash majority of miners enforce the rules 10:38 < sipa> it does not at all require that wallets or coin owners enforce it 10:39 < Eliel_> it's the economically relevant nodes that produce most transactions, no? 10:39 < sipa> nodes don't produce transactions, they verify them 10:39 -!- benthamshead [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39 < sipa> there is some correlation, but it may not be very strong 10:39 < Eliel_> yes, strictly speaking it's the parties that create those transactions that run the nodes. 10:40 < sipa> well the verification is on the receiver side 10:41 < sipa> it's correlated because everyone who receives a lot of coins will eventually tend to send them elsewhere as well 10:41 -!- harrymm [~wayne@104.237.91.235] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:41 < sipa> but strictly speaking, a sender SPV wallet that produces a lot of transactions doesn't matter here at all, while the full node the payment processor the webshop uses can be incredibly relevant even though it produces no transactions at all 10:43 < Eliel_> anyway, I got this thought while reading BIP149. It seemed to me it'd be better to have some signaling about the readiness other than just miners. 10:45 < sipa> i disagree 10:45 < sipa> the signalling is there to find a good time to activate 10:46 < sipa> having transaction creators signal is potentially a disaster if they signal before miners are ready 10:46 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@67.149.43.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:48 < Eliel_> Assuming the delay in activation is sufficient, would that really become a real problem except in the case where miners are dead set against the change but nearly the whole community wants the change? 10:50 < sipa> if nearly the whole community wants the change, they should force miners to upgrade :) 10:50 < Eliel_> yes, that'd be the effect basically. 10:50 < sipa> except transaction creators are not necessarily the same as economically relevant full nodes 10:51 < sipa> only the latter can force miners 10:52 < sipa> in a hypothetical scenario where nearly all transactions are sent by lightweight clients, validated by full nodes, and the lightweight clients want a softfork but nobody else does, letting them control activation is asking for a disaster 10:56 < Eliel_> I find it rather unlikely that the signaling percentage could reach significant levels that way... 10:59 < Eliel_> miners could still block it if it's worth the lost fees to block it. 11:01 < Eliel_> but... this really is an interesting problem. The most important job in the network is being done by nodes that are difficult to measure and are almost invisible. 11:07 < Eliel_> I wonder if transaction mining might help here. For example, define a mining algorithm that's cuckoo cycle but implemented so that you need the whole UTXO set to mine. That would be fast to verify and would basically require a validating node to do. 11:08 < Eliel_> and then require transactions to be mined to some degree with that algorithm to be valid 11:15 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-24.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-24.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:24 < tromp_> i prefer light clients to be able to verify pow without needing to maintain a large data set 11:25 < tromp_> of course that is still possible with a merkelized data set 11:25 < tromp_> but then proof size becomes many kilobytes 11:27 -!- asz [811fc0a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.31.192.169] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:37 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37 -!- DougieBot5000_ [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:37 -!- dgenr8 [~dgenr8@unaffiliated/dgenr8] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:38 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:40 -!- DougieBot5000 [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40 -!- wizkid057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42 -!- wizkid057 [~wk@unaffiliated/wizkid057] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:42 -!- molz_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:46 -!- mol [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:46 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:09 -!- molz_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:37 < stevenroose> there seems to be a single address that fails 12:38 < stevenroose> it says lowest error address = highest error address = 0x... 12:38 < sipa> ? 12:38 < stevenroose> sipa, whoops, wrong channel 12:44 -!- benthamshead [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:55 -!- mol [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:56 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58 -!- asz [811fc0a9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.31.192.169] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:12 -!- benthamshead1 [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:15 -!- benthamshead1 [~benthamsh@52.15.227.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17 -!- harrymm [~wayne@104.237.91.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18 < kanzure> .tw https://twitter.com/PVCocotb/status/427387905246392320 13:18 < yoleaux> #Cocotb Opencores JPEG encoder testbench makeover: 19,000 lines of #Verilog to 125 lines of self-checking #Python https://github.com/chiggs/oc_jpegencode/blob/master/tb/test_jpeg_top.py (@PVCocotb) 13:36 -!- harrymm [~wayne@104.237.91.37] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:47 < Eliel_> tromp_: if you design it right, SPV nodes can verify the POW if they're given the right pieces of the UTXO set. 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ZZZzzz...] 18:47 < kanzure> .title https://lists.launchpad.net/mimblewimble/msg00114.html 18:47 < yoleaux> [POLL] Perfectly hiding vs perfectly binding : Mailing list archive : mimblewimble team in Launchpad 19:02 -!- juscamarena_ [~justin@47.148.176.74] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:06 -!- harrymm1 [~wayne@104.237.91.228] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:08 -!- harrymm [~wayne@104.237.91.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12 -!- rmwb_ [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:d817:85d1:ad5b:757c] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:14 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35 -!- molz_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38 -!- moli_ [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 19:41 -!- tromp [~tromp@148.75.196.67] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02 -!- DougieBot5000_ [~DougieBot@unaffiliated/dougiebot5000] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 20:03 -!- rmwb 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