--- Log opened Fri Jun 16 00:00:23 2017 00:02 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@129.180.75.159] has quit [] 00:05 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-7-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 00:36 -!- oleganza [~oleganza@c-73-170-224-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: oleganza] 00:43 -!- paveljanik [~paveljani@unaffiliated/paveljanik] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:12 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:14 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:22 -!- harding [~harding@mail.dtrt.org] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:29 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-7-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:32 -!- espes__ [~espes@205.185.120.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:33 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:33 -!- espes__ [~espes@205.185.120.132] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:34 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 01:54 < fluffypony> we've had to ban him from #monero, he's disruptive 02:04 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdtxkqjntsgkykmg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:09 -!- jouke [~worst@unaffiliated/komkommer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11 -!- jouke [~worst@unaffiliated/komkommer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:38 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 02:59 -!- LeMiner [LeMiner@unaffiliated/leminer] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:06 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:19 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:33 < stevenroose> fluffypony, I don 03:33 < stevenroose> 't get how those people exist 03:35 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:45 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:48 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:51 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] 03:58 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:58 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 03:59 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has left #bitcoin-wizards [] 04:00 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:08 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:11 < draadpiraat[m]> well when a mommy troll and a daddy troll love eachother very much... 04:13 < stevenroose> draadpiraat[m], :D :D that name 04:13 < stevenroose> geniaal 04:13 < draadpiraat[m]> ;) 04:27 -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whbkoikukcjtnmxq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:34 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:36 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:57 -!- JackH [~laptop@79-73-189-176.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:06 -!- arubi [~ese168@gateway/tor-sasl/ese168] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:18 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:22 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:57 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:59 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@2604:2000:e080:d400:2980:92fb:16d8:4de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:08 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:11 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:24 -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:32 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Quit: laurentmt] 06:44 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06 < Taek> I have a new method for difficulty adjustment. Unless I'm missing something, I think it allows you to safely adjust the block difficulty every block 07:06 < Taek> *without having violent swings due to randomness 07:06 < Taek> basically you have a running tally of all the work that's been performed (which you get by summing the difficulties of each block), and also a running tally of how much time has passed 07:07 < Taek> then each block, you adjust the difficulty based on the hashrate derived from looking at these (difficulty / time = measured hashrate) 07:07 < Taek> then you take the totals and multiply by 0.998 07:08 < Taek> This places exponential preference on recent blocks, but the half life is just over 2 days, meaning the oddball block that takes 90 minutes isn't going to be very disruptive 07:09 < Taek> you can keep the difficulty clamps at 0.1% adjustment per block 07:12 < Taek> This should result in much better responsiveness to changes in hashrate, while also providing greater resistance to difficulty raising attacks 07:20 -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whbkoikukcjtnmxq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:23 -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qdtxkqjntsgkykmg] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 07:31 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:32 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:50 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:53 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 07:54 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:00 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:05 -!- Oizopower [uid19103@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nduvmmwngfhntaip] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:10 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:16 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:21 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:24 * kanzure mumbles about http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/scalingbitcoin/milan/fast-difficulty-adjustment/ 08:25 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:26 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:29 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:33 < draadpiraat[m]> improving difficulty readjustment in the sudden-drop case would need a hardfork, right? 08:34 < draadpiraat[m]> if so, is it on the hardfork wishlist? (the hardfork wishlist has no link on bitcoin.ninja so not sure where to find it) 08:39 < Taek> it helps with both sudden increases in hashrate (say, 10nm asics show up tomorrow) and also sudden decreases in hashrate - hardfork, switched coins, etc 08:39 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39 < Taek> I don't think difficulty adjustment algorithms are super high on anyone's priority list because thus far they haven't caused much problems 08:40 < Taek> rather, the altcoins that try to solve difficulty adjustment issues have typically run into much more severe issues than the original algorithm would have 08:40 < Taek> getting difficulty adjustment right is deceptively challenging, it's a big graveyard 08:40 < sipa> Taek: that sounds vaguely similar to the hashrate estimation algorithm i have on bitcoin.sipa.be 08:41 < sipa> except it also extrapolates 08:41 < sipa> have you simulated this approach? 08:41 < Taek> I have, though with more aggressive constants. 08:42 < Taek> sipa: I don't see any links to the algorithm from the root page 08:42 < sipa> ha 08:42 < draadpiraat[m]> sipa: the y-axis on those graphs seems off 08:42 < sipa> draadpiraat[m]: yes, need to fix :) 08:44 < sipa> Taek: i have a description of the algorithm somewhere... it's not useful for difficulty adjustment, though 08:45 < sipa> it is based on the assumption that in near history, the actual hashrate is exponentially growing 08:45 < sipa> and then based on the random sampling you can estimate what the parameters of that exponential function are 08:46 < draadpiraat[m]> how about dwindling hashrate/sudden drops? seems like it's not an unrealistic scenario given this supposed UAHF 08:47 < draadpiraat[m]> (sorry, not enough quotes around that term) 08:49 < Taek> sipa: is the algorithm flexible enough to correctly see if the exponent is negative? 08:50 < Taek> also, why do you say that it's not useful for difficulty adjustment? 08:51 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:52 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:52 < sipa> Taek: because it extrapolates 08:53 < sipa> for example, if it uses data of the past 3 days, the average data point is maybe 1-1.5 days old 08:53 < sipa> it estimates the parameters of an exponential function with this data, and then evaluates that function at the now timestamp 08:54 < sipa> however, it is likely to swing wildly because of sampling noise 08:54 < sipa> yes, it will correctly estimate decreases 08:54 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:55 < sipa> iirc, it was a surprisingly simple formula based on the average age of all past hashrate with a decaying average 08:56 < Taek> however, it is likely to swing wildly because of sampling noise 08:57 < Taek> couldn't you fight that noise by sampling over more days? 08:57 < Taek> or does that make the data too old/ 08:58 < sipa> it's still extrapolating 08:58 -!- danrobinson [~danrobins@2604:2000:e080:d400:2980:92fb:16d8:4de] has quit [Quit: danrobinson] 09:17 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] 09:21 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:48 -!- jnewbery [~Thunderbi@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jnewbery] 09:50 -!- jnewbery [~john@static-100-38-11-146.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:52 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:03 -!- metric [~metric@199.127.226.246] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:03 -!- metric [~metric@199.127.226.246] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:05 -!- priidu [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-179-139-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:15 -!- Oizopower 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