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[~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:44 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 04:47 -!- lmatteis [uid3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-odwocjxshdqezeen] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 04:49 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:57 -!- dabura667 [~dabura667@p98110-ipngnfx01marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:19 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:44 -!- MaxSan [~one@91.214.169.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:49 -!- c0rrzin [~Mutter@2804:14c:71:85c7:bc66:7cc1:3ccd:7781] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:50 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-100-38-216-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@unaffiliated/tiagotrs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:54 -!- afk11 [~afk11@gateway/tor-sasl/afk11] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:56 -!- c0rrzin [~Mutter@2804:14c:71:85c7:bc66:7cc1:3ccd:7781] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:00 -!- bsm117532 [~mcelrath@static-100-38-216-231.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:16 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:29 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 06:47 < kanzure> in far future low-subsidy mining environment with arbitrary block weights, are there any interesting differences between a miner taking 1 sat/tx versus 1 sat/(many txns) versus 1 sat/block and versus 1 sat/(many blocks) ? 06:48 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:48 < kanzure> s/low-subsidy/zero-subsidy 07:19 -!- prime_ [~quassel@5.146.5.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19 -!- prime [~quassel@5.146.5.174] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:19 -!- prime is now known as Guest14821 07:20 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@pD9FD69F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:20 < bsm117532> Well, there's no obvious way for them to decide which txns to include among the txns that have zero fee. 07:20 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 07:21 < bsm117532> Likewise, there's no reason I'd turn on my mining hardware until the reward for a block was non-zero. 07:21 < bsm117532> So 1 sat/(many blocks) doesn't really work. A block needs to have a non-zero fee or there's no reason to waste electricity mining it. 07:22 < bsm117532> The cost of switching off hardware is basically zero. 07:22 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:45 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:00 < aj> 1 sat/(many blocks) might be worthwhile in that it lets previous rewards you've earnt age and become spendable 08:05 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:07 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 08:07 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:11 < aj> if some blocks have zero reward, you might be at the point where tx sniping is a thing, so you might need to bury profitable blocks you mine to avoid other miners trying to orphan your blocks 08:12 < aj> i don't see why you'd ever mine 0-fee transactions though (except for CPFP or if they pay you directly or similar of course) 08:21 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@188.94.18.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:22 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@pD9FD69F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:24 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@pD9FD69F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:36 -!- e0 [~e0@50-250-56-89-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 08:37 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:45 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-180-125-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-177-240-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:01 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:02 -!- jtimon [~quassel@102.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:03 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 09:04 < bsm117532> aj: Doesn't really cost you anything to mine a 0-fee transaction, if another txn has fees. So might as well just stuff the block full after adding the fee-txns. (No incentive to NOT do that though...) 09:07 < aj> bsm117532: well, there's very slight costs to mining zero fee txns: you have to verify sigs, you may incentivise some people to switch from 1 satoshi to 0 satoshi fees, you might be forgoing sub-satoshi out-of-band fees via lightning or something, but yeah 09:08 < bsm117532> aj: I include any CPU operations and bandwidth as "doesn't really cost you anything" compared to the cost of running mining hardware. If we're twiddling over cpu/bandwidth on the bitcoind server, the mining ecosystem has failed. 09:10 < aj> bsm117532: i'm not following why you'd do something that has no benefit and even trivial cost is all 09:11 < bsm117532> Because the cost of modifying bitcoind is non-zero. ;-) Just run it (and it will include zero-fee txns) 09:13 < aj> bsm117532: isn't there a minimum fee by default still though? 09:13 < bsm117532> For sending yes. But AFAIK the mining code will include zero fee transactions if there is nothing else. 09:14 < aj> bsm117532: i thought there was a min fee for standardness still, so 0 fee stuff doesn't get into the mempool without a configuration change 09:14 < aj> bsm117532: yeah, minrelaytxfee defaults to 0.00001 ? 09:15 < aj> bsm117532: but yes, by the time subsidy is dead and average tx fees are 1 satoshi, i will grant you that default might be reduced to 0 :-P 09:16 < bsm117532> Yes you're right about minrelaytxfee, you'd have to set it to zero. 09:16 < bsm117532> And txn spammers will have a field day. 09:20 -!- Guest14821 is now known as prime___ 09:22 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:22 -!- Aaronva__ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:24 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:26 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@92.154.68.134] has quit [Client Quit] 09:26 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:28 -!- Noldorin [~noldorin@unaffiliated/noldorin] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:35 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:08 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:09 -!- tiagotrs [~tiago@pD9FD69F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26 -!- Aaronva__ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:32 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:37 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:48 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:53 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:01 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:07 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:09 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:17 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:18 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:35 < kanzure> could there be private outsourceable coin selection? if spending 20 more seconds on computation would give a better overall result with more money saved, then often i think the value of that savings could be captured. 11:35 < kanzure> also, if private outsourceable coin selection is workable, then for the really hard situations (with many coins) you could do gpu/fpga/asics. 11:36 < kanzure> i think for privacy sake you could send totally different coin face values that approximate your actual coin face values 11:39 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42 < Murch> kanzure: BnB already does exhaustive search. You can easily restrict it further by setting a maximum number of inputs or smaller window definition for "exact matches". 11:45 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:53 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@cpc106809-live29-2-0-cust896.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:02 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:11 -!- str4d [~str4d@c-24-218-248-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:11 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.156.174.27] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:14 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:15 -!- str4d [~str4d@c-24-218-248-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27 -!- prime___ [~quassel@5.146.5.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 12:54 -!- talmai [~T@c-76-24-28-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:03 -!- e0 [~e0@50-250-56-89-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@2001:df0:ce:1601:286e:c360:507a:12bc] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:11 -!- prime [~quassel@ip-178-203-234-193.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:12 -!- prime is now known as Guest69819 13:15 -!- talmai [~T@c-76-24-28-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mining] 13:18 -!- Guest69819 [~quassel@ip-178-203-234-193.hsi10.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:19 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-177-240-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:26 -!- deusexbeer [~deusexbee@093-092-177-240-dynamic-pool-adsl.wbt.ru] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:28 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:28 -!- talmai [~T@c-76-24-28-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:41 -!- talmai [~T@c-76-24-28-74.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mining] 13:54 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW 13:55 -!- Guyver2_ [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 13:56 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:56 -!- Guyver2_ is now known as Guyver2 14:03 -!- mn3monic [~xxwa@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:07 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@129.180.75.159] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:22 -!- jtimon [~quassel@102.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:28 -!- e0 [~e0@dhcp-18-111-20-153.dyn.mit.edu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:40 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@129.180.75.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@unaffiliated/chris-stewart-5/x-3612383] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:47 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:48 -!- mn3monic [~xxwa@94.177.176.239] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:48 -!- mn3monic [~xxwa@94.177.176.239] has quit [Changing host] 14:48 -!- mn3monic [~xxwa@unaffiliated/mn3monic] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 14:51 -!- itsme_ [~textual@x4d04d65b.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:11 -!- e0 [~e0@dhcp-18-111-20-153.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17 -!- chjj [~chjj@unaffiliated/chjj] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:20 -!- jtimon [~quassel@102.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:21 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29 -!- sausage_factory [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:30 -!- daszorz [~daszorz@cpc106809-live29-2-0-cust896.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30 -!- blackwraith [~priidu@unaffiliated/priidu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31 -!- cluckj [~cluckj@static-98-114-202-142.phlapa.ftas.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 15:32 -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Going offline, see ya! 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