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#bitcoin-wizards 05:39 -!- uiuc-slack [~uiuc-slac@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39 -!- wbnns_ [sid105317@21/bitcoin/binns] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- zmanian_____ [sid113594@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fhmhjufidorjuble] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- jbenet_ [sid17552@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-slfbkosxyxaopfme] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- CodeShark_ [sid126576@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-egokdoxawwwlvfxt] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- metric_ [~metric@199.127.226.246] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:40 -!- binaryatrocity_ [~quassel@2606:df00:3:0:216:3cff:fe68:30d9] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 05:41 < waxwing> in case people haven't seen it yet http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/patrick.mc-corry/atomically-trading-roger.pdf 05:41 -!- spinza [~spin@196.212.164.26] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:41 -!- Guest89066 [~socrates1@li175-104.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:41 -!- TD--Linux 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But that's a trade-off we're all buying into already. 09:12 * bsm117532 mumble mumble scaling blah blah 09:14 < kanzure> we haven't bought into that tradeoff for key revocation, don't know what you mean. 09:15 < bsm117532> We've bought into it for our transactions in general, and are engineering ways to improve it (scaling). In as much as transactions ARE key revocation/rotation in such a system. 09:28 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:30 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:31 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37 -!- Aaronvan_ is now known as AaronvanW 09:38 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 09:47 -!- thrmo [~thrmo@unaffiliated/thrmo] has quit [Quit: Waiting for .007] 09:52 < TD--Linux> nick TD-Linux 09:52 -!- TD--Linux is now known as TD-Linux 09:52 -!- TD-Linux [~Thomas@kyoko.thomasdaede.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:52 -!- TD-Linux [~Thomas@about/essy/indecisive/TD-Linux] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:06 -!- PaulCapestany [~PaulCapes@ip72-209-228-52.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:22 -!- madacol [~madacol@190-77-177-145.dyn.dsl.cantv.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:23 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Plugging out.] 10:24 -!- RubenSomsen [~RubenSoms@1.217.138.142] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:45 -!- CoinHeavy [~textual@66.201.63.240] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:50 -!- jtimon [~quassel@102.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:52 -!- marcoagner [~user@187.113.137.68] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:54 -!- fletom [~fletom@ec2-34-202-234-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55 -!- fletom [~fletom@ec2-34-202-234-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 10:59 -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 11:04 -!- CoinHeavy [~textual@66.201.63.240] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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(www.adiirc.com)] 16:51 -!- AaronvanW [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:57 -!- rockhouse [~rockhouse@h54110.upc-h.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:57 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:02 -!- marcoagner [~user@177.99.121.244] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:03 -!- MaxSan [~one@185.9.19.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:08 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:23 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26 -!- Aranjedeath [~Aranjedea@unaffiliated/aranjedeath] has quit [Quit: Three sheets to the wind] 17:32 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:35 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:42 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:48 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@199.178.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [] 17:49 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:53 -!- rmwb [~rmwb@129.180.75.5] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:54 -!- wasi [~wasi@gateway/tor-sasl/wasi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 17:59 -!- abpa [~abpa@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:06 -!- Aaronvan_ [~AaronvanW@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07 < gmaxwell> I wish this were a joke, but BU developers are announcing they've solved the cost-of-node-operation problem... 18:08 < gmaxwell> You pay them $10, and they'll start a "node" for you on digital ocean with whatever string you want in the useragent field. 18:08 < gmaxwell> https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/6mvlqo/new_website_allows_you_to_adopt_a_bitcoin/ 18:08 < gmaxwell> and both Peter_R and deadalnix are describing it as a solution to the problem that nodes are costly to operate. 18:09 < gmaxwell> "It shows that the team is focused on solving user's problem. If running a node is too hard/too expensive, then this is a solution to make it simpler/cheaper." "this is addressing the problem that some people face, namely that running a node is too expensive and/or complicated." "BU creates service to allow even non-technical users to cheaply and easily run their own nodes" 18:10 -!- kexkey_ [~kexkey@173.209.61.61] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:10 < gmaxwell> (I characterized it as asking for donations for a sybil attack) 18:10 < sipa> You can't outsource trust. 18:10 < gmaxwell> sipa: you're obviously not focused on solving user's problems. 18:11 < gmaxwell> (the bigger thing is that if people are okay with someone else running their nodes, they can just use them, they don't need to pay anyone!) 18:11 < gmaxwell> But the BU people are characterizing this as "run their own nodes" -- it's inexplicable. 18:13 -!- kexkey [~kexkey@68.168.119.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13 -!- Chris_Stewart_5 [~chris@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/chrisstewart5/x-62865615] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13 < kanzure> how is centralized trust a user problem? i thought there were already many centralized services for payments. 18:14 < sipa> kanzure: BU people want to run nodes obviously, because that's how they influence consensus (even if nobody even notices if that node gets forked off the network) 18:14 < sipa> so, to solve that user problem, it needs to be cheap to run nodes 18:17 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:18 -!- rilos [~rilos@unaffiliated/rilos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:19 -!- jtimon [~quassel@102.30.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21 -!- Murch [~murch@96-82-80-28-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Snoozing.] 18:21 < renlord> if that's the case I could pay gmaxwell so I can tether my SPV node to his for a much lower price -- maybe $1/month? 18:22 < renlord> s/his/his full node/ 18:23 -!- airbreather_ [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:23 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23 -!- airbreather_ [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24 -!- airbreather [~airbreath@d149-67-99-43.nap.wideopenwest.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 18:28 -!- pro [~pro@unaffiliated/pro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29 -!- rilos [~rilos@unaffiliated/rilos] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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The BU nonsense is consistent with that thinking anyway. 20:58 -!- rilos [~rilos@unaffiliated/rilos] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00 -!- legogris [~legogris@128.199.205.238] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:08 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has quit [Quit: Like 3 fire emojis lit rn ???] 21:08 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:10 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has quit [Client Quit] 21:11 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:29 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32 -!- Dyaheon [~Dya@a91-156-192-39.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:39 -!- peter_ [1856acaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.86.172.170] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:41 < peter_> What you're missing Greg is that people aren't adopting nodes for security--SPV is already secure. They are adopting nodes because it allows them to voice their preferences in a way that gets noticed (e.g., on nodecouter) 21:43 < peter_> This is win-win for us because big-block miners also want a stronger back-bone of nodes that will propagate 1MB+ blocks. 21:52 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has quit [Quit: Like 3 fire emojis lit rn ???] 21:53 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:53 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53 -!- coup_de_shitlord [~coup_de_s@2604:a880:1:20::8b:6001] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 21:58 < peter_> And for the record, nodes aren't particularly costly to operate today as demonstrated, nor would it be a problem if they became more costly to operate tomorrow. 21:58 -!- Giszmo [~leo@pc-240-13-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-225-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:25 < peter_> adoptanode.com 22:27 < mryandao> peter_: it seems like you've just confirmed gmaxwell's suggestion that people are in fact adopting nodes to mount a sybil attack. 22:28 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:30 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: lp0 on fire] 22:34 < peter_> mryandao: bitcoin is governed by proof-of-work, not proof-of-node. 22:35 < peter_> I think what will happen on August 1st will make that clear. 22:36 < peter_> Greg simply doesn't understand Bitcoin's consensus mechanism. 22:46 < mryandao> peter_: you don't seem to understand bitcoin. Might I point you to the whitepaper Satoshi wrote 22:46 < mryandao> maybe after a good number of readings, you'd be sufficiently enlightened to voice your contributions here. 22:47 -!- tromp [~tromp@ip-217-103-3-94.ip.prioritytelecom.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 22:49 < peter_> You must be referring to the one that Cobra re-wrote to be more inline with BS/Core dogma. 22:50 < peter_> Sorry, I'm more interested in the vision of Bitcoin as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system. 22:51 < mryandao> peter_: you had a typo there I think, you meant _centralized_ electronic cash system. 22:51 < mryandao> which none of here find interesting whatsoever. 22:51 < pigeons> i'll just use paypal's payment nodes for even cheaper and fater than bitcoin then 22:52 < pigeons> "SPV is already secure" without mentioning under what specific assumptions is probably a troll 22:55 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-225-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56 -!- arowser [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01 -!- peter_ [1856acaa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.86.172.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:01 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02 -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:03 -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kndpibpfcebfxcjg] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:05 -!- arowser [~quassel@45.32.248.113] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:11 -!- Giszmo [~leo@ip-193-233.219.201.nextelmovil.cl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards 23:18 -!- rusty [~rusty@pdpc/supporter/bronze/rusty] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25 -!- rilos [~rilos@unaffiliated/rilos] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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